• e8CArkcAuLE@piefed.social
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    11 months ago

    how was this possible? was there a deflation?
    or was it the specificity of the product sugar that was made so expensive due to wartime restrictions on maritime trade?

  • JackbyDev
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    11 months ago

    I’m still mad that we measure inflation as the price of goods instead of the money supply and people have the audacity to say greed doesn’t play a role.

      • JackbyDev
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        11 months ago

        As a country prints more money, prices go up as a side effect. But inflation isn’t a measure of the money supply, it’s a measure of the price of goods. But people act like greed isn’t a component even when we see things like companies skirting the law and colluding on prices through loop holes.

        • blarghly@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          That’s because inflation is the relevant factor for considering consumer well-being, and because prices can go up for any number of reasons.

          For example, prices can go up due to a shortage. Suppose there is a corn blight, and 90% of corn fields are destroyed one year. We expect the price of corn to go up, then, because corn is now scarce. People can switch to other grains for any deficiencies in nutrition they have - but we still need to ask, what should we do with our remaining corn? How much should go to corn on the cobb, creamed corn, corn meal, corn oil, or doritos? Some people want to make their family’s traditional corn bread for thanksgiving. Some people want to eat doritos more than anything else in life. Some people never eat corn anyway since it gives them a stomach ache. And some people exclusively eat corn instead of flour due to a gluten sensitivity that every doctor they’ve seen assures them isn’t real, but their osteopath/shaman confirmed using magic crystals. If corn stays the same price as before the shortage, the first person to get to the store buys it all and hoards it. But using the signalling mechanism inherent in higher prices, everyone is persuaded to only buy as much corn as they really need. And at the same time, farmers who might be economically devistated by their poor yeilds are able to recoup their losses, and are reassured that if they can find a way to fight the blight, a market for their product will still exist.

          As for greed - we don’t talk about it because it is uninteresting. It is a constant. It would be like talking about the effect of gravity on crop yeilds - it isn’t going to change, so it doesn’t matter. What does matter is the anti-competitive practices you are describing, which should be controlled via strong regulations and regulatory bodies.

          • JackbyDev
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            11 months ago

            I’m not saying we measure inflation incorrectly, I’m saying I’m annoyed when people act like greed isn’t a part of it. And yes, by greed I mean “anti competitive practices”.

            • blarghly@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              I have yet to meet anyone who had a strong opinion that anticompetitive practices were not happening. Usually when I talk about inflation, we discuss numerous factors like shortages, the fed interest rate, how some amount of inflation is reasonable to maintain a stable market, etc. And then one of us will say “and there is probably some price fixing going on that we don’t know about”, and everyone will agree that - knowing how profit-seeking companies work - this is probably the case, but we personally have not seen any strong evidence.

              • JackbyDev
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                11 months ago

                If you believe that greed is paying into inflation then I’m not talking about you, simple as that.

        • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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          11 months ago

          But… it doesn’t matter, does it? Whatever the reason for the increase in prices, if the CPI goes down, inflation goes up, that’s all there is to it, no?

          • JackbyDev
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            11 months ago

            I’m saying it’s annoying when economists and government officials act like greed can’t play a part in inflation when shit that should be illegal (like price colluding) happens that is purely an effect of greed.

            • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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              11 months ago

              Hmm… I don’t think they are. Most of the time they don’t even mention the reasons for inflation, just that inflation happens. A “reason” is only mentioned if it contributes in a significant manner - like a horrible financial strategy by a new government, or a market crash. Greed is an inherent part of capitalism, so - to mention it - they’d have to talk about it every single time.

              What I mean is: everybody who understands what inflation is knows that greed is a contributing factor. Everybody who doesn’t understand it, wouldn’t understand why is it being mentioned every time.

              • JackbyDev
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                11 months ago

                What do you mean government officials don’t mention reasons for inflation most of the time? That happens very often lmao. It’s used as a talking point all the time. What fantasy land are you in where government officials always act in good faith and 100% logically? Because that’s been my point this whole time, that I find that frustrating, and it really feels like everybody keeps trying to make it about something else, like I’m misunderstanding something.

                • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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                  11 months ago

                  What fantasy land are you in where government officials always act in good faith and 100% logically?

                  What a weird leap that is to go from “don’t mention reasons” to “always act in good faith”. Yikes.

                  Greed is always a factor. Always. There’s no point mentioning it, just like there’s no point in telling someone to “remember to breathe”.

    • khannie@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Yeah you’re close. Ball park for Lidl where I do most of my shopping:

      5lbs of sugar €5

      Bread €1

      2 quarts of milk €2.50

      6 oranges €2.50

      Oatmeal €1.80

      Coffee €4

        • khannie@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          That’s crazy money. Name brand bread in a normal supermarket is around 3 USD here and I resent paying it.

          Honestly I’d be buying a bread machine at those prices but we’ve a lot in the house so go through a lot of bread for school lunches etc.

            • khannie@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              Holy fuckballs! How in the name is Jesus is anyone making money on that?

              Actually, on further reflection and a check in my cupboard, I am a donkey. It’s just over a euro a kilo here. I had it in my head that the bags were half kilos.

              That’s still nearly half the price compared to here and I thought it was stupid cheap already.

          • hector@lemmy.today
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            11 months ago

            My price is for like 12 grain type of bread, not the Wonder Bread which is a little cheaper, the bottom shelf bread might be $250 to $3 at a big box store if not on sale, the better factory stuff is like four or five.

            I was baking bread for a couple of years not even because of price specifically but because this factory bread is kind of garbage.

            I hardly eat bread anymore or I still would. I cut out all added sugar as well. Almost any kind of processed food. Now if I eat something like factory bread it is a shock to my taste buds tasting all of the sugar and salt they load it up with.

            • khannie@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              Yeah, American bread shocked me when I got there the first time. Sugar in bread is wild to me. WILD!!! I was genuinely, deeply shocked at sweet bread.

              The stuff you get for a euro here is a basic white sliced pan (no sugar). It’s…fine. The kids like it for toast and sandwiches and I’m not averse to it. They have multigrain or freshly baked (that day) brown soda bread and a slicing machine which would be my preference and that is around the $3 / €2.50 mark but I can’t justify buying it just for myself. Nothing costs anywhere remotely near $5.

              I recall the US being cheaper for groceries and food in general when I was living there but that was only for 4 months in the late 90’s. I wonder if you’ve been harder hit by inflation in the intervening years than we have in Europe.

              edit: I was curious so went off to look. The answer is yes. For groceries you guys have had higher inflation since I was there (roughly +110% versus roughly +70% in the EU). Interesting stuff.

              • hector@lemmy.today
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                11 months ago

                Inflation had ticked up considerably by 2020, 2021 it just started rising and never stopped.

                Especially beef at the moment. But in a year 2003 prices seemed about half of what they are now.

                Vegetables and produce are probably twice what they were just in 2020, salad dressing was 88 cents at Aldi and now is like $2.

        • TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          11 months ago

          What do you mean by “bread”? Is it completely white, or does it contain a lot of sugar? The bread I know in the US contains zero nutritional value.

          • hector@lemmy.today
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            11 months ago

            I am talking about the mid grade bread like 12 grain that I buy. The lower shelf is like Wonder Bread that is worthless where you could squeeze the entire loaf down to an inch. As to the mid-grade bread like the 12 grain or the whole wheat or other variants there is some nutritional value but it is also chock full of sugar and salt to disguise substandard ingredients and just to indulge our corrupted palettes.

            Perversely most of the top shelf bread that is usually made by local bakeries is almost all white bread from refined grains. Although it may be the case that how the grain is grown leads to higher amounts of pesticides and toxic chemicals not removing the outer part of the grain but I don’t know on that specifically.

            • TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              11 months ago

              Inch?

              Agricultural and food regulations in the US are terrible. What is considered food-safe in the US is considered toxic here.

              The only healthy bread is whole wheats. It’s the only bread containing fibers. I just bake my own, with a bread baking machine. That way I can control the amount of sugar (none) and salt in it (bare minimum) and don’t use preservants. Supermarket whole wheats bread here contains a maximum of only 20% whole wheats. Mine 50% (more makes it become a brick).

  • HubertManne@piefed.social
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    11 months ago

    Unfortunately this comes about from a depression which is when most folks have zero of close enough to it to be zero. then suddenly bread goes for a few cents because most people cannot get enough cents together to buy bread and those with money don’t need anymore bread they have plenty.

    • Corn@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      It comes from price ceilings. When there’s no capitalist making money for doing nothing, and their buddies in overplayed management positions making money doing almost nothing, you can produce sugar real cheap.