Nobody dresses fancy anymore.
I was at the Plaza Hotel in New York a while back. One of the most expensive and storied places in the world, and pretty much every guest I saw had brought their clothes at The Gap.
Why would you dress up for a hotel?
When traveling “looking fancy” is the last thing I care about.
Nobody dresses fancy anymore.
Thank you for proving my point
If you expect them to dress up for no reason, sure.
Go where people actually have a reason to care and you’ll find them…
It is expected to dress up for high end dining…. Even when traveling. It’s not “no reason”
That’s the point OP is making. Nobody is dressing up.
Last time I went to a nice restaurant, my wife and I were the only ones dressed nicely.
She wore a nice dress, I wore a shirt & tie; the entire rest of the restaurant was enjoying $75 entrees in designer athlesiure outfits.
Only 75 dollars? Where did you go? Olive Garden?
I think ties have fallen out of fashion. At least in business dress. Button up shirt, nice slacks and a sport coat, all tailored. You have to specify black tie if you want people in fancy dress.
Designer clothes are designed clothes. The pretentiousness of looking like you have money was still there, just people do it differently now. You don’t scream “money” by wearing a suit you could’ve got tailored at Macy’s. There’s douchebag designer shit you can wear where it’s clear you spent a lot on it, and people recognize it.
Clothes and dressing nice has always had a pretentious side. Some people used to just be showing off they could afford a suit and nice clothes. Now it doesn’t mean as much. You show off you can afford to spend extra money on designer jeans.
Last time I went for a fancy dinner I wore jeans and a work shirt. And that was like a $350 dinner. I’m paying for the view not to be judged for my dress.
I don’t dress up for fine dining. Nobody cares.
I would dress fancy if the world were worthy of it.
Realistically, it costs about the same to dress up as to dress casually.
In my humble opinion, when a person dresses nicely they are saying that they feel worth the effort.
Realistically, it costs about the same to dress up as to dress casually
Are you a trust fund kid or what? This couldn’t be more false.
https://www.dickies.com/pages/profession
Those pants look nice, and last a long time.
I can get a collared shirt for less than the price of a concert T-shirt.
I don’t need to impress anyone. My self care is no ones business.
I hope that doesn’t include not bathing. Because bad body odor is everybody’s business.
But why would you dress fancy for a hotel? Most of the time it’s just less comfortable than jeans and a t-shirt. Not to mention the cost of dressing fancy.
Look at pictures from back in the day.
People used to wear suits and ties / dresses and jewelry if they were going out to dinner, or getting on an airplane.
Also, the Plaza is a very expensive hotel. If someone can afford to spend the night here they can afford decent clothes.
Sure, but why? What is the point in wearing decent clothes when other clothes are often quite a lot more comfortable. I’m not here to impress people with my clothes, I’m here to get on with my day/holiday/escort, not brighten some hotel lobby with an expensive suit.
That just used to be the social norms in the past. At one point, it was expected that you had to wear a hat when going outdoors by default. When we were young we used to tie an onion to our belt, which was the style at the time. Things change over time.
Depends on the clothes. It’s not that I feel physically uncomfortable in a suit, just often socially uncomfortable. However a good suit is often more comfortable than jeans and a holey t-shirt physically. It’s soft, well made and fitted material. It shouldn’t be super uncomfortable.
You sound pretentious.
That’s not what ‘pretentious’ means.
If anything, I sound elitist
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pretentious: adjective intended to attract notice and impress others
I meant what I said motherfucker.
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because nobody goes to hotels just to spend time at the hotel anymore. because nobody can afford to.
The Plaza isn’t the Hilton Garden Inn. It’s a Fairmont hotel, and people 100% go there just for food, drinks, afternoon tea, the spa, etc.
Also, you need to book reservations for a lot of that stuff well in advance. Those things are frequently booked up and used by a fuck ton of people who are not hotel guests.
The Plaza is more than a place to crash. There is the Palm Court and a number of bougee things going on there. I would argue that more that half of the folks using those hotel amenities are not staying the night. They’re there for special occasions.
I used to occasionally go to nightclubs in LA with some older guys that insisted on wearing nice, fitted suits. They actually bought me one when I first moved out there. If I was in a nightclub in my 20’s, it was usually cause I was working. So I don’t really have much to compare the experience to. But I’d say they were attention-getting - not necessarily in a good way. One dude tried to start a fight with me. And a girl I texted afterward was surprised to discover that I was, in fact, quite poor. That was a while ago. I have plenty of suits now. I never wear them. I guess nobody dresses fancy anymore.
I was at a funeral recently where about 1 in 10 people were wearing cargo shorts or jeans, a graphic tee or a polo shirt, and sneakers.
Not that I think we should go back to dressing in powdered wigs and hose but I think there is room for clothing choices to mark an occasion
Depends on context. For my grandmother, I wore a black dress. For my boyfriend, a bunch of us wore replicas of his favorite tshirt.
the family of the deceased (35, sudden heart failure from undiagnosed blood pressure condition) were in suits. It was at a crematorium with a flavor of traditional Vietnamese traditions. No dress code was specified.
The clothing choices marked the occasion.
I do not like NYC “dress code”. I went to a cocktail bar and they asked me to keep my jacket on because I had a t shirt. The cocktails were only $15-17. Not even fancy! Is my money worth less that I’m wearing jeans or a tshirt?
This is why I love Seattle. Everywhere allows tshirts and jeans no matter how fancy. I’m comfy and spending money.
$15.00 for a cocktail??
I’m glad I don’t drink…
That’s not even horrifically expensive in most cities. I’ve seen people pay $20/shot at some bars.
Thats unfortunately the standard now. Makes sense in a place like Canada were our booze is mega taxed but places where it’s the same price as water still want $15 for a basic cocktail.
Non alcohol cocktails cost more than alcohol cocktails. Rip off.
Dude for real. I had a yuzu citrus non alcoholic cocktail and it was $14. It’s fuckin soda water, simple syrup and some muddled shit.
“Only 15-17$” Does everyone there has a 6 figure income or how can this bar survive lol
I’m from Seattle so that’s not even a crazy cocktail cost. And I think you need a six figure income to survive in NYC.
My personal theory is that it is a symptom of societal decay. People would dress nicely and look good when going out, so others would see and be impressed or attracted.
Now i have literally not worn anything else but different sweatpants for the last year or so, because i could not care less what other random passerbys perceive me as, since i am decidedly not interested in them either.
Nobody cares about real life impressions any more because the people that matter to them are in their phone. Friends and family are not necessarily in the same location as you, and romantic options are for the most part also in your phone now. Why brother looking good when potential partners are expected to judge you by your social media presence anyway and i’m just here for groceries.
symptom of societal decay.
Nah. We just realized that the people wearing suits all the time are villainous cunts. #finance
The world is also much warmer now…
I see it almost the opposite way. A lot of what you’re describing is exactly why I don’t put much value in dressing fancy or performing “respectability” for strangers.
Wearing a nice suit to the lodge once a week doesn’t make someone a good person. Plenty of people can dress up, look impressive in public, shake hands, say the right things, and then go home and be cruel, abusive, miserable, or drunk. I saw enough of that growing up to lose any belief that polished appearances are proof of character.
So when people stop treating suits, fancy clothes, and public image as moral signals, I don’t see that as societal decay. In some ways, I see it as growth. People are realizing that looking respectable and being respectable are not the same thing.
If anything, when I see someone using appearance, tradition, or status as a mask for behavior I don’t respect, it makes me want to be the opposite of what they stand for.
It’s one of the most egalitarian things. Dressing down is inclusive of people who can’t dress up. And as far as society goes, the world was very well dressed through the period it couldn’t stop declaring war on itself.
I would say not caring what strangers think of you is an enormous improvement.
Eh, i kinda miss it. Of course its carefree living, but it also is a symptom of our individual detachment from society at large. We don’t relate to the people around us, we handpick those connections digitally for the most part, where shit is just as shallow as it supposedly was in reality before that.
Sure, you dont care what you look like in the street. But if you have mainstream social media as well i would bet you have made an effort for your profiles that other people can see. Good looking pics, possibly edited too, relatable posts and personal information.
We just shifted most of our presentation online.
Or we realized wearing a 3 piece suit when it’s 98°F outside with 95% humidity is fucking stupid.
This is the only social media I use. Not caring what others think, while maintaining respect for them, is the closest one can get to true peace. I want to get closer to that. Dressing with other people’s perceptions as a focus gets me further from that peace, not closer.
There’s a difference between not caring about what strangers think about you and showing a little respect for everyone you’re going to encounter when you’re out in the world
It’s not about airs and graces, but that little bit of effort is indicative of how people behave when interacting with others generally
At a minimum, I don’t want deal with people who haven’t worn clean clothes or washed themselves (and I do volunteer work washing homeless people’s clothes for them, so that they can at least enjoy the feel of warm, clean and dry clothes)
It’s not snobbish to expect people to put some effort into the interactions they’re going to have during the course of their day
I don’t really understand comparing not showering and wearing dirty clothes to “dressing up”. If someone is disrespected by my clothes, that’s their own weird biases. Nothing I’m doing is the least bit offensive, I’m just being comfortable. And I know I get judged for it. Which is their problem, not mine.
That makes a lot of sense.
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so others would see and be impressed or attracted.
People get more ware of the shallowness behind it. Which is a good thing imo.
I’m glad that pretending to be fancy is falling out of fashion. It’s extremely uncomfortable (save me the speech about how I need a well fitting suit or whatever, no thanks) and it’s expensive (very much in conflict with your claim below that it’s cheap to dress up. I’m not sure how you could possibly believe that). As someone who routinely dresses comfortably af, nothing was lost when people stopped dressing up randomly such as on airplanes. Being comfortable is very important to some people, especially those on the spectrum. I’ve got nothing to prove to people by being uncomfortable. I’ll keep wearing gym shorts on a plane and I literally feel for people wearing suits as I know how uncomfortable every aspect of it is.
I wish I didn’t love wearing suits, but I do. I used to get to/have to wear them for work and I never get to or have a good reason/excuse anymore. And now I don’t even own a basic blazer. I had a whole closet of bomb-ass blazers. It was so good.
When I was a programmer I liked wearing suits and sport jackets and Norwegian wool sweaters and selvedge jeans and the like, even though it negatively impacted my career. People in my profession genuinely assumed that I must not have been a very good programmer because of it. Now I’m a school bus driver and whenever I dress like I used to (which is very rarely) everybody assumes I have a job interview or a date.
It’s also too hot. Dress shirts that feel like the Boston Strangler has both his mitts around my neck, and that’s before the tie. Shirts that are 2XL wide but medium length that don’t fit my pre-human simian torso proportions. Pants that don’t conform to my pic-nic ham butt and my stumpy legs. Ridiculous suits with sewn shut pockets and buttons you can’t use and if you do you look like you’re about to turn into the Hulk. Shoes that blister and tear your skin in 10 minutes even though I can hike for 5 hours.
I dress borderline homeless now.
Yep I experience some of the same issues. The feeling of a tie around my neck is oppressive. I hate it! I laughed at some of your descriptions here lol
https://www.dickies.com/pages/profession
I can get a collared business shirt for about $20, what I’d pay for a fancy T-shirt.
I’m still wearing $7 old navy T-shirts I bought in 2014 along with sub-$20 gym shorts I bought 10+ years ago. Thing about dress clothes is you’re automatically judged on not only what it is but the quality of it and how worn it is. Not to mention it’s very uncomfortable compared to how I dress. Anyone who judges me for dressing comfortably isn’t worth my time honestly.
You sound like the homeless guy who laughs at people going to work on Monday morning while he’s comfortable in his cardboard box.
You sound like a classist piece of shit
I’ll wave at you tomorrow on the way to work.
Stay classy!
Enjoy your pointless boomer endeavor of impressing people by weirdly forcing yourself to be uncomfortable. Some day it will pay off.
But there’s quite an array of options between “fancy” and “t-shirt tucked into jean shorts.”
It’s apparently a local custom in Texas to go to a wedding dressed in blue jeans, a white shirt, your boots and whatever cowboy hat you wear. Meanwhile everyone else who doesn’t know what fucking a cow feels like is wearing at least a tie.
Fancy is in the eye of the beholder though. In some places a polo shirt is fancy, in other places a western shirt. I think you want people wearing white button up shirts, slacks and nice dresses, but for some people it might be something completely different.
fancy? in this economy?
They are guests of a hotel, not on some kind of event.
I think one reason I noticed it was that there were photos on the wall showing all the famous guests who’d stayed there. All dressed up. It made no sense to me that people who are going to take the time and trouble to stay in a glamourous place wouldn’t try to look their best.
This sounds like peer pressure from dead people and enforced reverence for fancy shit. I dress for my comfort, not conformance to some rich guy’s standard.
If you’re such an independent thinker you wouldn’t want to stay at the Plaza. It’s much more expensive and exclusive than other accommodations in the same area.
I’m talking about folks who paid to go there specifically because of the ‘dead people.’
Right, I wouldn’t want to be there. If I am ever in any kind of place that expects me to look a certain way, I want to leave. Take me as I am in my solid color tank top and shorts or fuck off.
My original post was that people at the expensive hotel weren’t dressing up.
Apparently you either didn’t read it, or chose to ignore it.
You can go to the hotel and spend the money, and dress any way you want.
I see you are full of rage, but who you’re mad at is a mystery.
Third of it are condos. Those that use it as a hotel more likely care about the location, not about rich old fucks of the past that used it before them.
Have you ever looked at a map of Manhattan?
It’s about 12 miles end to end and about 3 miles across.
There are literally hundreds of hotels in walking distance of The Plaza. Many are less than half the price.
No one goes to the Plaza because it’s closer to where they are going.
Like, a museum?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaza_Hotel
It’s so famous it has it’s own Wiki page.
Do you dress up to look at a medieval-castle-turned-museum?
Have you ever tried to make an argument that didn’t include a strawman argument, or do you have trouble understanding the difference between a hotel and a museum?
One is still in use?
Fashion is cringe and try hard. Intentionally slotting yourself into a wealth ranking based on some cloth and a watch isn’t the flex you think it is. All it tells me is that you can’t afford the next tier of clothing.
At least $18 sweatpants in an $800 hotel gives a bit of mystery.
And thank god for that too. The last thing I need is to worry about all the bullshit of dealing with clothes on top of everything else going on.
I don’t have a problem with people resisting the societal pressure to wear expensive clothes, it’s just another way to separate the rich from the poor, but buying those clothes from predatory corporations like The Gap isn’t the proper solution. Thrift shops, Goodwill, Facebook Marketplace, etc.
Aight, the real question is “What were you wearing”.
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Why do 'Murican “car guys” make owning a car (well, the finance company really owns it) their whole personality?
It’s a car
Like dickheads who wear Harley clothing to advertise the fact that they’re afraid of going around corners and desperately need attention
Not nearly as bad as the lady who briefly worked in my office. She had a ton of Harley-Davidson accessories. Literally the first thing she told us was that she and her husband love the brand and riding motorcycles. I asked how many Harleys they had. The answer? Zero, but they hoped to buy one someday.
They made “hoping to own something” their whole personality.
They made “hoping to own something” their whole personality.
The American Dream.
I wonder what will happen when they can actually afford to buy a Harley, and realize they’re not very good bikes?
Fun fact, for decades Harley has made more selling their clothes to wannabes than selling their shit bikes to dentists with a midlife crisis
To be fair, it’s not just an American thing. Plenty of beemer bros in Europe.
That’s why I prefer frigates.
Im not leaving bed for anything less than a destroyer. If you want me to dress fancy, dust off a battleship.
Oh here we go again. You know that shit is why WWI happened, right?
And that joke is why your girlfriend is now pregnant
One thing that always surprises me in the US is the sneaker obsession. Especially NY. I’ll see well dressed people in a suit and then goofy ass sneakers. Looks awful.
“dress shoes” feel awful.
A well made pair of leather dress shoes will eventually mold themselves to your feet. It’s a different feeling to a sneaker, not fabric and foam rubber obv, but they can be super comfy. I’ve even got a pair of Frye boots I’ve had for like 20 years that feel tight when you first pull them on but then they’re just like a second skin, you forget they’re even there
People have told me this about dress and other kinds of shoes. But it’s not true for me so far. I’ve only found a few types of shoes that I can walk comfortably in period, and even just sitting, the dress shoes I’ve worn feel very narrow for me and have a hard and uncomfortable sole.
Oh man I’ve got hammer toes on one foot and you’ve made me realize that one of them has gotten really bad since the last time I had to wear anything more than sneakers.
I’m actually dreading the next time I have to wear dress shoes now. And I’m a 14WW, it’s hard enough finding shoes without toe conditions adding on top. I think I just need to find a cobbler, at this point.
Damn, that sounds rough. I hope you find some shoes that work for you!
It sound like you might have wide feet. I do, too, and have to look hard for good quality wide shoes. The sole should ease up with use.
Bad dress shoes feel awful. When I used to wear them at a dresser job, I loved my Bostonians.
I wear dress shoes with thick black athletic socks. They feel 1000x better. Who really looks closely at your socks anyway.
Reminds me of another thing I hate about dressing up. I once was chided heartily for wearing the “wrong” color of socks to a wedding. Why would anyone else give a shit that my socks were white instead of black? Apparently they do, and harshly judge me for it.
OK, white socks with a dark coloured suit would look rather silly.
My point exactly^
The fact that anyone would think let alone say this is the best argument I have for dressing up being a stupid obligation
It sounds like you’re just bad at dressing up.
It sounds like you think I care
Really depends. They’ve dropped off in quality and there are better shoes, but in terms of pure comfort, Cole Haan uses the same cushioned inserts as Jordans in some of their dress shoes, as one example.
They’re owned by Nike
Cole Haan
Ha ha, my residual /r/MaleFashionAdvice instincts kicked in on this one.
:)
That’s where I got my start! Those heady days of yore. I miss having money.
Oh come on, they’re Balenciaga!
They look like they’re wearing their dad’s suit.
Same company that sells a canvas tote bag for $1700. Must be legit!
Looks more like New Balanceiaga to me.
I will never understand chunky shoes. When I was young, people at school were picked on for having very big feet, getting called a clown or a t-rex or something.
Now it’s fashionable to wear shoes that are both oversized for your feet, heavier than they need to be, and make your feet look disfigured (not that I have anything against people with disfigured feet). What does having weird shapes on your feet achieve? Especially when the same people wear the same bland outfit-of-the-month as all of their fast fashion friends. Either lean into the avant garde or stay basic. You can’t pick both and pretend it’s cool.
EDIT: Not particularly bashing Elliot here. I don’t like the look but at least it’s mostly cohesive? And definitely on-brand for Elliot’s style.
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Oh my god, I actually laughed out loud at this lol
All of western history people cared about how they look.
Now people just go out wearing some advertisement for some stupid company.
Self respect and respect for the community is gone.
Being concerned about what strangers think of you & your attire is the opposite of self-respect.
Mental take. Humans are fundamentaly are pack animals that are built for connection and community.
The most important thing about being human is working with others. Caring about what others think of you and you caring about them is of vital importance.
I agree that carrying about others and showing empathy is vitally important, but I am not the least bit concerned what you think if you’re judging me or others simply based on what we’re wearing, assuming it’s not intentionally offensive or indecent.
People who are more concerned about how they are perceived by others than who they are as a person have a problem and likely don’t know it. Dressing stylish or fancy is not itself evidence of self-respect, and being overly concerned about how strangers perceive you can be the exact opposite.
We aren’t talking about being fancy or stylish.
We are talking about people dressing poorly. Sure if you want to wear gym clothes at the gym or walking around fine. Additionally I haven’t got issues with tradies getting a sandwich on a lunch break but they shouldn’t be wearing that to a sit down dinner on a date after work.
But we are also quite smart animals, the dressing up shit is just something we have imposed on ourselves(which origins from rich people btw), we, with time can learn to disregard that bullshit to a certain extent
Depends, I would say it’s a show of respect
I’m aware other people are around and I’m going to present myself in a way that is un-offensive to those people. And not just other customers, but the staff as well
Does it matter at McDonalds? no, McDonalds is a pretty casual place where you would expect people to show in casual attire; be that pajamas because they’ve been being lazy all day, suits because they’re at lunch during work, or dirty clothes because they’ve been doing manual labor… whatever
But showing up to a nicer place in casual clothes basically says to everyone, “I have about as much respect for this place as I do Wal-Mart or McDonalds”; it can also say, “I don’t have much respect for myself” too. As in, “I’m too lazy to even put on clothes so I just walk around in my cookie monster pajamas”.
And why should I care for what other people decide my attire tells them?
You don’t have to but we don’t have time to get to know every single person in the world on a personal level, and the way someone looks can tell you a lot about them
I always heard it as, “you wear a hat to be associated with other people that wear that same hat”.
You put on a cowboy hat so that people assume you like big trucks and country music.
You’re free to walk around looking like human trash but then also you shouldn’t be surprised when people assume you are human trash. Remember, you don’t always just represent yourself. You represent other people in your social group. Like if you’re a teenager you represent teenagers.
The assumption is that all the nerds that play cards at comic book stores are fat, dirty, and stinky because enough of the nerds that paly cards at comic book stores showed up fat, dirty and stinky that this became the stereotype.
Had they all shown up in suits we’d probably have a different opinion of them. It doesn’t matter if they’re nice people, we have no idea, we didn’t get the opportunity to talk to them… all we know is that they look mega-gross so we assume they’re all mega-gross. And now, if you admit that you like playing cards at comic book stores, we’ll all assume you’re mega gross too
So, it really would have been helpful if enough of them had cared what others thought of them enough to clean up a bit so they didn’t destroy the reputation of all the other people who wear that same hat
And if you’re a business owner, if you let people look like this in your business, it can hurt your business. There’s a reason we all assume Wal-Mart is trashy as fuck and that’s because the people shopping at Wal-Mart have a tendency to go there looking trashy as fuck. So much so there use to be a website dedicated to looking at all the insane ways Wal-Mart shoppers dressed
I can work from pretty much anywhere as long as I have a connection, so most of my attires are comprised of PJ pants, opinionated r-shirts and flip flops. Evidently, I have other clothes, but unless my wife wants to go out somewhere that has a strict dress code (and by strict I mean that they won’t let you in unless you’re wearing the bare minimum) I barely wear any of them. Then there’s fully formal requirements, you just won’t see me anywhere near those. I guess I’m old enough to not care at all.
Oh damn, we Klaraposting around here? Based
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This Twitter channel is pretty racist btw.
ThisTwitterchannelis pretty racist btw.FTFY
@ivanafterall Wait, so are they the baby, or are they not the baby?
Well I’ll tell you one thing, he’s not the mama that’s for sure.
Pretty sure there’s a cast iron skillet used a punctuation in there somewhere.
Gotta love him though.
Of course. He’s the baby!
What finally killed TV show quotable taglines? Was it Bazinga? I hope it was Bazinga.
I remember parts of this show being oddly dark. I’d watch a reboot that was all about America declining but with dinosaurs.
The ending was about as bleak as endings get.
NOT THE MAMA!!!
Lookin’ like Vic Mackey’s stunt dummy.
I used to never really care about fashion. Felt like a stupid status symbol. But I once went to a big city in east asia, and I was impressed by how nicely everybody dressed. Everybody felt like they complemented the environment, and I felt like I stook out like a sore thumb.
I feel like that’s an underappreciated side of fashion. Dressing up to fit the environment, to avoid ruining overall aesthetics. It’s less about the individual, more about the community. In this asian city I also noticed that people weren’t as loud and disruptive in public spaces. It feels like the same concept. You try not to make loud noises to disturb others, and you try not to dress so badly as to clash with the environment.
It really feels like a cultural difference between the east and west, and I feel like the west could learn a bit from the east here.
So if you’re going to a fine dining restaurant with ornate decor and chandeliers, dress up in fancy clothes. If you’re just walking around a popular spot in the city, casual is fine but look at how people are dressed around you and try not to clash. The goal isn’t to look amazing and draw attention, the goal is to avoid looking out-of-place.
That definitely wasn’t my wardrobe approach. One of my main inspirations as I was learning how to dress better was Chalky White from Boardwalk Empire.
I like colors. Tended toward the ostentatious. But I was working in politics, so it helped to be eye-catching.
dress not for validation but wear what you like and makes you happy (just dont go roaming about in your underwear)
that is the western philosophy, yes. The eastern philosophy is to care about your community and environment more, and to try to “fit in”
the eastern philosophy is defunct then
bold statement about a group of cultures that make up half the world population
I’d dress however she tells me to.
