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The
2004 2008 2012 2016 2020 2024election is the most important election of our lives. Democracy is at stake and we need to hold our noses and vote for the lesser evil.If [current challenger or incumbent] gets elected you’ll never vote again.
Isn’t it a bit different when one candidate/party has outright said they plan to take steps to end democracy, and has previously participated in an attempted coup?
I don’t think either of those things is unprecedented.
Pretending like our elections are currently normal as usual is absurd, we literally had a coup attempt for the 2020 election.
Yes, the 2024 election has democracy on the ballot and it isn’t even a controversial statement to say so.
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also American elections are rigged anyway. Neither group of politicians really bothers campaigning outside their base they just both compete to rig the election so their base’s votes count more
2000 - Gore decides to concede during a close recount
2020 - The big lie, an attack on our Capitol, fake elector plot, phone call to Georgia pressuring it to flip, dominion lawsuit, and more.
They do not compare, simple as that.
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I’m aware of what happened in 2000, don’t get me wrong. But my point is recent events have been far more egregious, dangerous and unprecedented.
Trying to compare the 2 is uninformed at best, bad faith at worst.
Wow, fuck you very much. Trump’s FAILED coup is more dangerous and egregious that Bush’s SUCCESSFUL coup? Trump’s complete lack of power is more dangerous than Bush redestroying the middle east on false pretences of chemical and nuclear weapons, mobilising terrorist attacks and organisations worldwide?
The only excuse for such a pathetically stupid statement is that you’re a little baby who wasn’t around for any of the last 2 decades and are just making things up based on vibes. “wah wah wah, I can’t remember bush so nothing must have happened”. You are an embarrassment. Delete your account and jump in the ocean.
You are an embarrassment. Delete your account and jump in the ocean.
I am sincerely convinced that Trump is far smarter than Bush as well
I like to imagine you’re @[email protected] but you slip into this alt when it’s time to drop knowledge on em
Your metrics are just vibe-based then.
2000 was absolutely more of a coup than Jan 6th by almost every functional metric. Your main criticism of Jan 6th and Trump are based more on civility than actual policy. Nothing about Trump was uniquely terrible for a Republican president policy wise, he just said the quiet part out loud.
also that coup was a joke they didn’t even do anything
Several hundred bored far right small business owners and boomer QAnon weirdos walking around the capitol for a few hours, stealing a few things and then one of them dying from tasering himself in the balls with absolutely no actual change in power is not a coup.
Lmao liberals will tell you we narrowly escaped the MAGA Reich because some incompetent losers broke a few windows and smeared human shit on the walls
Tell that to someone in Iraq
Thanks for another example of why voting for dema is a waste of time because they don’t even give a shit and will loose while claiming the moral high ground given the first possible opportunity.
About as long as it takes for you and your priv ilk to finally get that this is serious and stop having to be dragged kicking and screaming to the polling stations.
not a single election in U.S. history has EVER had “democracy on the ballot.” We don’t have a fucking democracy. When’s the last time anyone has picked a candidate? Year after year, everyone I talk to irl and online despises both candidates. Try to tell someone making minimum wage to go wait in line at the polls to vote, missing those work hours would be literally detrimental. Even if all of those things were disregarded, the popular vote has been fucking ignored in several elections for a convoluted system that was founded by fucking slave owners. even if donald shart “removed democracy” what would change? because Trump’s policy is slightly worse than joe brandons? both of them will uphold the status quo, fund the zionist settler colony, lock up latinx immigrants in concentration camps, build a border wall, prolong the proxy war, expand the military industrial complex, continue a fierce grip on the imperial periphery, i could fucking go on. the dems had a presidency and a majority in Congress when roe was overturned and what did they do to try and stop it? NOTHING. no matter who wins, democracy will never be at stake because THERE IS NO DEMOCRACY. so try and tell me democracy is on the ballot again. fucking do it.
even if donald shart “removed democracy” what would change?
Nothing really, the real reason why most liberals hate Trump is because he doesn’t hide the fact that the USA is not a real democracy and is a fascistic state. Usually the democrats try to hide it better than the republicans, so their voters can sleep well without thinking about all the people the US kills outside and inside their country.
Not sure why the lol, I totally agree with this. US democracy has flaws that should be addressed, big ones being gerrymandering, electoral college (which will eventually go away due to NPVIC), and our judicial system.
Recent events have highlighted on a national stage weaknesses that must be fixed. Let’s get to work instead of throwing in the towel and allowing fascism to rise.
Oh jeez it’s almost like the fuckers who want to end democracy don’t go away after losing at democracy one time.
Votes aren’t cast against candidates.
They are in a two party system
While there are two dominant political parties in the United States, every presidential election I’ve participated in has had more than two candidates to choose from. I’d appreciate it if you’d expand upon your point.
Oh boy I’m sure this isn’t a question in bad faith asking how an extremely obvious and well documented flaw of first past the post works
The US is under FPTP, only two candidates matter and voting outside those two or refusing to vote is mathematically identical to a vote for the candidate least aligned with your own values.
Face it: there are only two candidates who realistically have a chance at winning the general election. It’s been that way for every US election we’ve seen.
If you vote for someone who doesn’t have a realistic chance of winning, that’s about the same as just not voting at all.
So you really have 3 choices: candidate A, candidate B, or indifference.
And there are two possible outcomes: candidate A or candidate B.
If one of those outcomes is at all preferable to the other, (e.g. either A is “better” or B is “worse”), it’s strategically best to vote for the main candidate you prefer, since that increases the chance of getting your preference of the two outcomes.
Right now candidate A and candidate B are functionally the same.
How many presidential elections have you participated in where more than two parties received any electoral votes at all?
When did I claim to be an elector?
I assumed you understood how a presidential election worked in the US. Was I mistaken?
I’m not an elector, so why would you bring up the electoral college?
Because they’re an instrumental part of how the election process works for quite a while now. If a candidate is receiving 0 electoral votes they are functionally as electable as you or I.
You’ve more than proven yourself to be in bad faith here though, so you’ll have to pester someone else with future efforts.
This is the democracy you’re proud to support?
Who says I’m proud to support it
So you’re ashamed to support it? Honestly that’s even worse. I understand quietly doing it because you think you have to but going around telling everyone about it and trying to convince them to as well doesn’t seem like shame to me. Seems like you’re proud about it
i think he means he doesn’t support it, he was pointing out the flaw of the two party system?
That’s it exactly
What if I really disike the policies of both candidates?
Sounds like a dogshit system not worth propping up.
Not voting for Biden and there is quite literally nothing anyone can say to persuade me to vote for him.
I don’t blame you man. That guy is a fucking joke.
To expand on my point even further, in any future presidential election I will never vote for any president regardless of what anyone says.
If anyone can figure out why, I’ll make them an theoretical honorary mod of one of the channels I’m on.
I’ll throw out an unexpected guess— are you in a state where the electoral college means your vote doesn’t matter?
Bing bong! Correct! And that state is Alaska, where the presidential election is already over while we’re just over 1/3 of the way through our day of voting.
Which is why it is in the most literal sense of the word a complete waste of time voting for a president to me.
Alaskaball is in Alaska?
I do, that guy is what’s standing between me and a camp!
If Joe stepped down and endorsed Hunter, I would consider it
Enjoy the Trump presidency. You’ll never vote again.
there literally was a trump presidency and that didn’t happen
It almost did. Jan 6th was a coup attempt.
On the campaign trail a day or two ago he literally said, “…we’ve been waging an all-out war on American democracy.”But go on and insist it is “both sides” to up your edgelord cred. You’re never going to find any politician that agrees with you on every issue. Unless you get off your ass and run, which we know is too much effort for you.
It almost did. Jan 6th was a coup attempt.
There was no mechanism for it actually succeeding. It was an attempt the same way a child attempts to transform into a bird.
a half assed and unserious coup attempt. Trump wasn’t even directly involved it was less than a riot
The issue I disagree with Biden on is whether there should be a genocide
He’s being charged with it because he CAN be linked directly to it. Half ass or not, it was a coup attempt. Saying it was half assed or not serious is exactly what people said about the Beer Hall Putsch. Look what happened after.
And you can’t blame Biden for what Hamas did.
Victory to Hamas and the freedom fighters of Palestine! Death to Israel and all zionists!
Nobody’s blaming Biden for what hamas did they’re blaming him for the genocide Isreal been doing in response.
By the way he just approved sending a bunch of bunker busters so Isreal can bomb even more hospitals indiscriminately.
It was a coup attempt in the same way me screaming in my backyard is an attempt to become a super saiyan. Nothing happened. A bunch of meemaws and idiot conspiracy theorists milled about the house and Senate. They didn’t even have the gumption to take a shit on the podium.
They had their true enemies within spitting distance and none of them threw a bomb or fired a shot. They took selfies. Absolute morons.
Bitch he literally tried to choke out his driver so he could go there himself to lead the insurrection in person.
Nevermind, the palestinians here in the states who’ll tell you that as much as Biden sucks, Trump’s issue is that we’re not doing it here too.
Browbeating people into voting for a satanic right wing warmonger was a losing strategy in 2016 and it’s a losing strategy now. There is a massive chance now that Biden will lose as a direct result of his actions in Gaza. This is directly Biden’s fault and no amount of fearmomgering about January 6th will change it, for the record most people don’t really even care.
If you’re concerned about losing “our democracy”, blame the DNC. That they’re content with running a senile maniac who is actively facilitating a genocide should enrage you more than people online expressing their disgust with his criminal behavior.
Yea if democrats are so fucking concerned about democracy maybe they should, I don’t know, support one of the policies 80% of their base is loudly telling them matters to them.
Like not having Biden be the nominee.
wow, 600 rednecks waltzed into the capital, completely unorganized with no demands.
coup attempt? fucking seriously?
Hey they had to shoot a gun exactly one time to get every single person to go home as soon as the concept of consequences metastasized in their brains.
How are we supposed to stop them next time.
And he literally tried to take over the capitol building to stop the transfer of power, not to mention how his supreme court has been steadily uprooting our democratic rights.
Well in 1/3 of US provisional elections in the 21st century, the candidate with the most votes has lost the election thanks to the electoral college. So even if they did go vote, there is a 1 in 3 chance that the candidate with the most votes loses the election.
Which is really weird because the US brands itself as the bastion of freedom and democracy internationally, yet they do not follow two of the most important principles of democracy itself. Those being one man equals one vote, and the candidate with the most votes wins. Lots of people in the USA effectively do not have a vote for president with how the electoral college is structured.
You’ll never vote again.
I’ve never voted for any president you baby-brained jackass. You might as well worship the ground I step on because me not voting apparently helped Biden and Obama win, by your twisted logic
If that simple observation set you off, go check your diaper. You DID ask us.
Nobody asked for your opinion you trump-brained liberal cultist
None of the people Biden killed through war profiteering, supporting genocide, and policy failure will vote again either.
Glad to hear your proud to support all that death though. Good on you for owning up to supporting the atrocities
That’s not really a threat at this point.
Thats literally what you useless dumb fucks said right before Hillary managed to lose the easiest election of a lifetime using the exact same strategy you’re using this time.
Maybe Biden will exceed expectations and actually go to states he depends on to win.
When the fascists come for us, we’ll remember you as one of the collaborators that helped make it happen.
Better get rid of Joe then
Agreed
this site is hentai free, looking for it? leave 
Eagerly looking forward to ticking the “against Trump” box in the ballot. Haven’t seen one worded like that before
Volcel police
The bickering in this thread is just the latest example of how broken American politics is. There are no good candidates, only least bad ones, and we are forced into these shitty choices every single time because the people in power value profits over human rights and dignity.
I’m voting Biden, but I’m not happy about it.
I’m voting Biden
I’m not
Ah, so that’s what kind of instance this is. A Republican one
They support Trump and Russia “ironically”, so far that it’s not even ironic anymore.
Wringing your hands won’t change the fact you’re supporting a genocidal ghoul.
If Democrats get your support unconditionally, then that encourages them to completely ignore what you have to say because they already got your vote and that’s all you’re good for to them.
I find it fascinating how liberals here cannot conceive that Biden and Trump might as well be the same person. Their policies are identical because it doesn’t matter anymore. America is on rails. This is a country run by a profit algorithm.
The only distinction between Biden and Trump to me is Trump is funnier.
I wouldn’t describe “I don’t know if I can vote for a guy supporting genocide” as bickering
Do you remember when liberals were arguing over how they’d vote for Mussolini over Hitler lmao
This is how their brains work
I get where they’re coming from, the problem is there’s no exit strategy. By voting for the lesser evil election after election you still get to the worst shit imaginable, it just takes a while.
Just don’t vote then. Who tf cares
Gotta love the damned privs out here again to remind us all that white “leftists” have a collective memory of “as far back as I can go before I have to acknowledge that Republicans make things materially worse for the people I say I’m an ally to whenever they’re in power.”
Hey you edgelord “genocide joe posters”, it’s me, an actual fucking palestinian here in america to tell you that the Republicans think the problem is that we’re not doing that shit here too.
When Trump rides back into the whitehouse on the backs of your militant refusal of solidarity, it’ll be on you when some Trucknuts McGee bastard beats me in the streets, and tells me that my Sand N****r ass should be grateful that he didn’t bring a rope.
It’ll be on you when Red States begin abolishing no fault divorce to trap women in abusive marriages because it made Steven Crowder big sad one time.
It’ll be on you the next time a trans kid is faced with the choice to either run away or almost certainly die and absolutely be disowned.
It’s a year out from the election. “I won’t vote for Joe” only means trump wins if democrats refuse to run a better candidate.
Where the hate for the democrats running an unelectable demon?
Unfortunately the Overton window moves with the voters. Leftists boycott every election like it’s some kind of flex, but all the Democrats do is move further right to capture more right wing voters. Because why bother catering to leftists.
Where the hate for the democrats running an unelectable demon?
Unelectable??
The bitter truth is that when only the worst people in America come out to vote, only the worst candidates are electable. Being a demon is a plus for electability.
but all the Democrats do is move further right to capture more right wing voters.
That’s exactly the issue, innit? The Democratic Party doesn’t care about the issues or the vulnerable groups enough to stick to their principles, or try to figure out how to pull voters to the left. They care more about staying in power, and if that means throwing constituencies under the bus and moving right, they move right.
You’re way too idealistic about what politics is or should be.
The DNC isn’t good, or moral, and that’s not it’s job. It’s a business, it only exists to be in power as a representation of the voters.
The voters influence the parties. The DNC shouldn’t be trying to pull voters left. Voters need to be pulling the DNC left. If the most progressive candidates keep winning, if the most conservative candidates keep losing, it forces the entire Overton window left.
And that’s really the dream, choosing the most progressive of two progressive candidates, not the least regressive of two regressive candidates.
Well, I must disagree. Factions in the Republican Party have been engaged in a decades-long campaign to pull voters to the right, starting with Sen. Barry Goldwater’s conservative movement, leading into the Reagan Revolution, the Contract with America era, the founding of Fox News as a propaganda arm of the party, the (astroturfed) Tea Party, and on to today. The notion that a national party organization exists solely as the Platonic embodiment of the will of the voters strikes me as quite idealistic.
If the GOP ia trying to move people right it’s is a complete failure though, isn’t it? Women’s rights are popular, LGBT rights are popular, inclusiveness is popular, religious affiliation is decreasing. Being conservative is uncool and unpopular.
What the GOP succeeds at is undermining democracy so it can seize power with a minority. In fact, undermining democracy is the GOP’s only option, precisely because it fails so hard at pulling voters right.
That just doesn’t track history, though. Nixon did many things, like creating the EPA, that would be considered leftist today, not because he liked it, but because that was the political reality of the time. Then Reagan swept in on the Goldwaterite tide. Clinton overtly and explicitly moved right to steal conservative positions with his New Democrat movement.
Now we have a Democratic President breaking strikes as if he were ol’ Ronnie, and his supporters defending it because he got some minor concessions from the railroad for one of the unions involved. Even the signature achievement of Obama’s Presidency was a Heritage Foundation idea, pioneered as RomneyCare in Massachusetts.
We certainly have moved right in as a country in lots of ways, and somehow we’re on the verge of lots of people voting in a dictator.
You mean the guy who’s been negotiating the release of palestinians being held hostage in Israeli prisons, or the one who secured Palestinians the right to access their own natural resources?
You’re the one who isn’t doing anything to help us by insisting we deserve to die by trump’s hand if you don’t get your demands met.
How fucking dare you negotiate over the voices of the people most in need,
If you really have the privilege to turn your nose up, doing so is betrayal, especially from someone who marches and says all the pretty words of being an ally.
Dr. King was talking about your lot in Birmingham, all the performance of agreement, none of the work of solidarity.
The other party believes the issue is that we don’t have a similar policy of genocide here in the states and you really wanna ask where the hate’s at for the party that doesn’t do that shit here? I’ll tell ya where it’s at, it’s with all the shit privs who can’t see past themselves to fucking know better.
You mean the guy who’s been negotiating the release of palestinians being held hostage
Lmao. The guy facilitating the sale of weapons to Israel?
insisting we deserve to die by trump’s hand if you don’t get your demands met
You seem to not understand what I’m saying. Demand better of the democratic party.
[the hate for Dems is] with all the shit privs who can’t see past themselves to fucking know better.
Hahaha Hahaha ok
Exactly how much influence over Israel’s actions do you think his administration would have if it took the kind of hard line you’re looking for?
Israel has a far right xenophobic government and suffered a massive blow from Hamas. Short of invading Israel, there is nothing the US can do to prevent bloody retribution on Palestinians. By standing firm with Israel, we at least get a seat at the table to try and shape the response to reduce harm to civilians. We have actually had some success in that, though not as much as we would like.
Meanwhile, we have this quote coming from Harris: “Under no circumstances will the United States permit the forced relocation of Palestinians from Gaza or the West Bank, the besiegement of Gaza, or the redrawing of the borders of Gaza".
That’s a damn strong signal to Israel that US support for Israel is being undermined by their actions. That is how you leverage a relationship towards a change in outcome. Biden actually has a seriously skilled foreign policy team that’s following the path most beneficial to Palestinians, not the one most aestheticly pleasing to Palestinian supporters.
I’m a fierce critic of Biden, and I’m outraged that he decided to run again in 2024. Still, I think his administration has taken the right approach with Israel. I don’t think every step was handled perfectly, but the overall approach is correct, and he is doing it in the face of serious political backlash. That’s actually what leadership looks like.
That’s a ton of words that don’t answer the question: why is Biden running again when he polls worse than “unnamed democrat”? Does he want to lose?
Daily I see memes “you must vote Biden” and never memes saying “Biden should not run”. I can’t tell who’s stupid and who’s paid for
Exactly how much influence over Israel’s actions do you think his administration would have if it took the kind of hard line you’re looking for?
But I can’t even begin to understand what you mean when you say actually it’s good they sell weapons to Israel.
That’s a ton of words that don’t answer the question: why is Biden running again when he polls worse than “unnamed democrat”?
It also doesn’t answer a whole lot of other questions that weren’t asked.
Does he want to lose?
How should I know? Almost certainly not?
But I can’t even begin to understand what you mean when you say actually it’s good they sell weapons to Israel.
Do you think that if we refused then they wouldn’t just go buy them elsewhere? It’s notable that, for the first time, conditions have been imposed on how the weapons can be used. The conditions aren’t as restrictive as they might be, but that’s another signal that our “unconditional support” of Israel is in jeopardy.
We have always sold weapons to Israel. Stopping now wouldn’t impact the war, but it would destroy any influence we do have over Israel’s actions.
Again unanswered love it nice chat
I’m writing in Hillary. It’s her turn
Don’t blame me, I voted for Kodos
I’m voting for myself. President me. I’ll make Fortnite illegal. Mango vapes will have federal protection and in fact will be mandatory
I’m not sure how someone can look at the mask-off cryptofascism of the American political system at this point and convince themselves that voting blue over red makes the tiniest bit of difference. The mountains of corpses both parties routinely inflict on the world at large makes any tiny delineation in rhetoric (and it is just rhetoric, because anyone with eyes knows the national level Democrats aren’t doing shit about fuck even on culture war issues that they’ve fundraised off of for three decades, let alone any of the systemic evil and rot leaving billions in destitution) so fucking irrelevant that it’s honestly a joke someone could even bother to try and shame people into casting votes that statistically would never influence the outcome of an election even if it was a fair and democratic process.
been a while since I’ve seen a forced meme. interesting. proceed
