I had to reply to this post from a media forum poster:
We all know how the credit crunch is squeezing us but I was amused by the
fact that the Open University feels that journalists should expect to pay in
order to attend a conference in Milton Keynes. Anyone else been asked to pay
to cover events from other universities or is the Open Uni about to declare
itself full of toxic debt and demand to be nationalised.
Dear
Thank you for your email and interest in the ReLIVE08 Conference.
Registration officially closed on the 22nd September however we are holding
four places for journalists and members of the press, on a first come first
served basis, for which we could offer you a special registration rate of
£325.
If you would like to attend please could you send your completed
registration and payment forms to us ASAP.
We hope to see you at the Conference in November.
Best wishes
ReLIVE08 Conference Team
I feel your pain. If it is one in your side from laughing.
Just last weekend I was not in London and Brighton for an event run with the participation of UoBrighton.
As a consequence of a kind recommendation from a PR I think I met via these pages, I was 'invited' as you were to an event. I thanked them and pointed out that 3 days away, accommodation and travel were quite enough for me to bear without a fee on top, so ta but no ta.
Having seen my email signature links on Junkk.com I was surprised then to be reinvited, only this time to speak. As it seemed a nifty networking opportunity I agreed.
Sadly, having got cracking on my topic, Powerpoints, etc, it all went the shape of a pear when it was clarified that this was still for a fee (only... that I paid them), but would be reduced vs. other delegates.
The era of 'pay to play' beyond music is with us I guess:(
However, I really struggle to see why I should fund others who go on to profit from charging an audience to share in what I am willing to bring to them, especially when it is all billed as 'helping the planet'. This whole industry is becoming thoroughly discredited, as well as being totally unrepresentative. I was at one a while ago that was £1k for the day, and the only folk there were govt. and LAs and Uni types paid for, big business and lobbyists on expenses and almost no grass roots folk to represent the average person. Which may explain why a lot of these 'summit's result in stuff few with a mortgage, Fiesta and once a week dash round Lidl can identify with.
Rgds, Peter
Junkk.com
ps: The 'RE' prefix piqued my interest as I thought this might be another 'green' effort, and hence one I might be interested in, as I am pondering holding an eco-conference using it that does not depend on your ability to pay, get there or who lobbies a slot based on 'knowing people' or being a media luvvie.
In fact I note it refers to Second Life, which I am very interested in for its ability to bring people together, for free, without needing to fly or drive further than their PC screen. My partner now holds live international concerts using it and though she may have to stay up late or get up early to catch an Asia or US audience at their favoured time, it doesn't half make for a better gig on family life, for wallet... and planet.
Junkk.com promotes fun, reward-based e-practices, sharing oodles of info in objective, balanced ways. But we do have personal opinions, too! Hence this slightly ‘off of site, top of mind' blog by Junkk Male Peter. Hopefully still more ‘concerned mates’ than 'do this... or else' nannies, with critiques seen as constructive or of a more eyebrow-twitching ‘Oh, really?!' variety. Little that’s green can be viewed only in black and white.
Showing posts with label CONFERENCE. Show all posts
Showing posts with label CONFERENCE. Show all posts
Tuesday, September 30, 2008
Friday, August 01, 2008
Shorter. Cheaper. Greener
Speed Conferences - Ever Been To One?
Hold 'em on 2nd Life for free and I'm in.
I'm still plotting my revolutionary new conference format:)
Hold 'em on 2nd Life for free and I'm in.
I'm still plotting my revolutionary new conference format:)
Sunday, February 24, 2008
It's not like this life is working out so well
As my wife is an addict of online community 'Second Life' so this caught my interest: Searching for a new virtual life
I watched the programme, and what really piqued my interest was the notion that some are using such communities for virtual conferences. We're talking teh capacity for hundreds to 'attend', and then break out into groups.
This I find very exciting, especially bearing in mind my oft-cited lack of faith in the plethora of big-ticket mega-conferences, especially enviro-related, that seem to actively promote exclusivity and positively encouarges carbon excess.
I am now pondering this big-time with my notion of a genuine 'People's Gathering' where those that may really have worthy contributions can attend, be heard and contribute.
I watched the programme, and what really piqued my interest was the notion that some are using such communities for virtual conferences. We're talking teh capacity for hundreds to 'attend', and then break out into groups.
This I find very exciting, especially bearing in mind my oft-cited lack of faith in the plethora of big-ticket mega-conferences, especially enviro-related, that seem to actively promote exclusivity and positively encouarges carbon excess.
I am now pondering this big-time with my notion of a genuine 'People's Gathering' where those that may really have worthy contributions can attend, be heard and contribute.
Friday, November 30, 2007
Brussels Sprouts
It really is too early to answer the question I was asked more than once at the end: ‘Was it worth it?’
To put that in context, it was often preceded by another that I had posed to me at the beginning: ‘What are you doing here?’
My answer to both was/is the same: ‘I’ll let you know when the cheque clears’.
All it takes is one. But when I walked in, saw the format and the presentation slide document... I almost turned straight around to hit the bars (which are pretty good).
It’s hard to be all things to all people, and when you are at the annual conference of those on the planet whose life revolves around the bits that top bottles and jars, you pretty much know what to expect, but there were some unpleasant surprises.
First up, over the majority of the two days we were there to be talked at, and mainly by folk who had paid to give a 30 minute pitch to those who had paid to sit and listen to them. And I have to say that when I was on the nth ‘nozzle cleaning design’ I was glazing over a tad. Hence I was tasked with meeting and pitching to as many relevant folk as possible at the coffee break, lunch and post event.
I was also up against a bunch of guys who all knew each other, knew their topic backwards, thought of little else… and wore suits as opposed to shirts emblazoned with ‘Junkk.com – home of the award-winning eco-cap design, the RE:tie’, and carry laptops and not pink Vac:Sacs.
Still… nothing ventured…
Actually, I ended up jotting down a lot of useful stuff to help enhance my pitch for the concept once back and can get in a room with those who can make strategic decisions… and sign cheques. Because, sadly, there were few… very few… of such folk there.
That said I do believe there were several who, if not in such positions themselves, were at least in pretty close, if only round the water cooler. And, best yet, for a collection of rather literal, often jaded representatives of a $400Billion industry who get pitched to an awful lot by crackpot inventors, all went from impatient cynicism to highly complimentary approval in the space of my elevator pitch (usually on a sofa in the lobby – maybe I should have tried the lift, it would be more private!).
I guess it was summed up by the feedback from a representative of Coca-Cola (who, sadly, use no packs that have a closure that can evolve into a RE:tie) who said he’d seen a lot, and this was one the best innovations he’d seen. But then I was also cautioned about the nature of the indus... beast I am trying to influence. You don’t easily steer something that cranks out units in the billions daily, and once you apply the corporate system to the mix you are talking many years for even the best to work through to production.
So a lot ahead still, but a good set of seeds have been sown and, if I may be slightly optimistic, have already shown signs of germinating.
Thursday, October 18, 2007
Coping with Conferences
If any are of value I'll post 'em individually, but this email sums up what I (and I presume all in the world of 'green') now face by way of info exchange:
I’m writing to inform you of five recently launched conferences on corporate responsibility to add to your diary.
1) ‘Employee engagement for a sustainable business’
- How to get your workforce 100% Committed to sustainability..............and turn actions into profit
- 3-4 December, London.
2) The Climate Change Summit 2008
- Manage the risks, create new products and get you message across to consumers
- 12-13 February, London.
3) The Global Reporting Summit
- Celebrating best practice and assessing the landscape of CR reporting around the globe.
- 3–4 March, Berlin.
4) Global Anti-corruption, Compliance and Ethics USA 2008
- How to effectively develop and manage your corporate compliance and ethics programs
- 14-15 April, Chicago. Contact ross.vincent@ethicalcorp.com
5) The Responsible Business Summit
- Europe’s largest corporate responsibility conference returns for a 7th year
- 13-14 May, London.
That's just one conference outfit's worth. How many folk shunting around the world and how much cost?
I simply boggles the mind.
I know 'we' have to communicate and meet to negotiate, but this really is becoming a very expensive (which few outside lobbyists, corporates and Gov/LA types on per diems can afford) bandwagon, which makes one wonder just how well the average person in their rice paddy is really gaining any benefit.
I’m writing to inform you of five recently launched conferences on corporate responsibility to add to your diary.
1) ‘Employee engagement for a sustainable business’
- How to get your workforce 100% Committed to sustainability..............and turn actions into profit
- 3-4 December, London.
2) The Climate Change Summit 2008
- Manage the risks, create new products and get you message across to consumers
- 12-13 February, London.
3) The Global Reporting Summit
- Celebrating best practice and assessing the landscape of CR reporting around the globe.
- 3–4 March, Berlin.
4) Global Anti-corruption, Compliance and Ethics USA 2008
- How to effectively develop and manage your corporate compliance and ethics programs
- 14-15 April, Chicago. Contact ross.vincent@ethicalcorp.com
5) The Responsible Business Summit
- Europe’s largest corporate responsibility conference returns for a 7th year
- 13-14 May, London.
That's just one conference outfit's worth. How many folk shunting around the world and how much cost?
I simply boggles the mind.
I know 'we' have to communicate and meet to negotiate, but this really is becoming a very expensive (which few outside lobbyists, corporates and Gov/LA types on per diems can afford) bandwagon, which makes one wonder just how well the average person in their rice paddy is really gaining any benefit.
Thursday, September 27, 2007
Plus ca (climate) change

Yay! Another one: Bush hosts climate change talks
Representatives from Australia, Britain, Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Mexico, Russia, South Africa and the US will attend.
I wonder who? Or they all not attending each other's meetings these days to avoid actually doing anything? The Gordon Swerve approach, it seems, from tinpot dictators to balls of fire. Bet he'd be there in a heartbeat if it was Jose's 'The Special One Returns' gig. That's when you really need to know one's leader is on the case.
Dilbert, as ever, nails it.
Grist seems to agree - You Really Can't Have Too Many Meetings
Or have another - Treehugger - Reporting Live From the Clinton Global Initiative
Guardian - Europeans angry after Bush climate speech 'charade'
Guardian - Untransparent charity - 'There was a pretty fundamental problem with the third annual Clinton Global Initiative: the lack of transparency.' Hmmmn.
BBC - Bush climate plans spark debate
Economist - Warming to the environment? - 'Countries that did not openly criticise America’s stance seemed to be sending a message through the loftiness of the representatives that they sent to the respective get-togethers. Whereas the UN’s meeting had been overrun by presidents, prime ministers and even the odd monarch, Mr Bush was only able to entice ministers, advisers and bureaucrats to his. A vice-minister of state led China’s delegation. Italy sent someone with the title “sous-sherpa” Two of the 17 delegations showed up late for the opening session'
Thursday, September 13, 2007
When, well, IF in London
It's how I like my conferences. So long as they end up as billed, that is: Relevant, topical, hopefully balanced (you have to look at provenance - COMPASS has a 'leaning') informative... and free.
The title looks fair. Wish I could go. Hope it moves things on.
Can a consumer society stop climate change?
Climate change is arguably the biggest challenge we face, however can it be stopped in an increasingly consumer society? Some have suggested if we continue to consume at the present rate we'd need 4 planets to sustain our current consumption levels.
With the main parties facing growing pressure to live up to their rhetoric on climate change and in the run-up to the climate change bill, Compass has convened a special debate to discuss these issues at: 6pm on Thursday 4 October in Central London (exact venue tbc).
Our high-profile international speaker Clive Hamilton is the executive director of The Australia Institute, Australia’s leading progressive think tank. He's best known for his work on climate change policy, consumerism and the problems of economic growth. In 2004 the Australia Institute teamed up with the IPPR in London and the Center for American Progress in Washington to form the International Climate Change Taskforce. Clive has published extensively, including the best-selling books Growth Fetish and Affluenza (co-authored with Richard Denniss) and What's Left: The death of social democracy. His most recent book is Scorcher: The dirty politics of climate change.
At the debate he'll be joined by Compass chair Neal Lawson who's currently writing a book called All Consuming (www.allconsuming.org.uk) for publication in Spring 2008. More speakers are to be announced and the event will be chaired by Green Alliance Director Stephen Hale.
The event is free to attend, but early registration is essential to guarantee your place. Please email gavin@compassonline.org.uk to register.
The title looks fair. Wish I could go. Hope it moves things on.
Can a consumer society stop climate change?
Climate change is arguably the biggest challenge we face, however can it be stopped in an increasingly consumer society? Some have suggested if we continue to consume at the present rate we'd need 4 planets to sustain our current consumption levels.
With the main parties facing growing pressure to live up to their rhetoric on climate change and in the run-up to the climate change bill, Compass has convened a special debate to discuss these issues at: 6pm on Thursday 4 October in Central London (exact venue tbc).
Our high-profile international speaker Clive Hamilton is the executive director of The Australia Institute, Australia’s leading progressive think tank. He's best known for his work on climate change policy, consumerism and the problems of economic growth. In 2004 the Australia Institute teamed up with the IPPR in London and the Center for American Progress in Washington to form the International Climate Change Taskforce. Clive has published extensively, including the best-selling books Growth Fetish and Affluenza (co-authored with Richard Denniss) and What's Left: The death of social democracy. His most recent book is Scorcher: The dirty politics of climate change.
At the debate he'll be joined by Compass chair Neal Lawson who's currently writing a book called All Consuming (www.allconsuming.org.uk) for publication in Spring 2008. More speakers are to be announced and the event will be chaired by Green Alliance Director Stephen Hale.
The event is free to attend, but early registration is essential to guarantee your place. Please email gavin@compassonline.org.uk to register.
Friday, August 03, 2007
Yet another international conference
Today's announcement that Dubbya has invited a host of the planet's leaders to a september climate conference may well be seen by many as a signal that the USA is finally getting involved.
Perhaps yes, perhaps no. Me, I'll reserve judgment for now until I hear something genuinely concrete coming from the US Pols. Perhaps I shouldn't be overtly cynical, but surely the time for talking is over and its now the time for actually doing something about it?
Oh well, at least they now seem to be saying that they will support something if it is mandated by the UN.
Meanwhile, Lake Superior appears to be slowly going down a hidden plughole somewhere, as this from Yahoo News explains.
Some blame global warming, some blame a lack of rain (errrrm, wasn't that one of the things that global warming was predicted to do, as in alter weather and precipitation patterns?), others blame hidden water extraction to other states.
Whatever the real underlying reason, it does seem to be a major cause for concern. Worse still, [with my Friday afternoon smiling head on], this is the really shocking bit!, some of the pleasure boaters can no longer dock at many of the lake's moorings! Bless.
Addendum:
It looks as if there is now a growing consensus within the UN too. This from BusinessWire says that more than 100 countries speaking at the UN General Assembly have "signaled strong support for negotiations on a new international deal to tackle global warming."
Good stuff, a growing global consensus is what is desperately needed.
Oh. That's soured it a little for me - they're all having a two week jolly to Bali to discuss it.
Perhaps yes, perhaps no. Me, I'll reserve judgment for now until I hear something genuinely concrete coming from the US Pols. Perhaps I shouldn't be overtly cynical, but surely the time for talking is over and its now the time for actually doing something about it?
Oh well, at least they now seem to be saying that they will support something if it is mandated by the UN.
Meanwhile, Lake Superior appears to be slowly going down a hidden plughole somewhere, as this from Yahoo News explains.
Some blame global warming, some blame a lack of rain (errrrm, wasn't that one of the things that global warming was predicted to do, as in alter weather and precipitation patterns?), others blame hidden water extraction to other states.
Whatever the real underlying reason, it does seem to be a major cause for concern. Worse still, [with my Friday afternoon smiling head on], this is the really shocking bit!, some of the pleasure boaters can no longer dock at many of the lake's moorings! Bless.
Addendum:
It looks as if there is now a growing consensus within the UN too. This from BusinessWire says that more than 100 countries speaking at the UN General Assembly have "signaled strong support for negotiations on a new international deal to tackle global warming."
Good stuff, a growing global consensus is what is desperately needed.
Oh. That's soured it a little for me - they're all having a two week jolly to Bali to discuss it.
Monday, July 16, 2007
A little application. Well, a lot, actually.
I saw this ad in Media Week.Being well smart, beyond 'a festival of minds' and 'the biggest names tackle the biggest issue' I figured the word green might mean something I could/should be interested in, so I logged on to the website.
Strewth, they don't make it easy, do they?
All I could find out, beyond the fact it was green and big, was it was shaping up at six hundred quid for the probable privilege of again being talked at by some guys who will need to pop off after talking, a few hundred (doubtless eco) hand-outs and stands with LCDs showing wind turbines, some eco-canapes (or not) and sitting at a table populated by a bunch of overpaid guys with titles like 'Head of Sustainability' who all knew each other, only talked amongst themselves as a consequence, and moved in packs keeping each other, and conferences like this, in business. And at the end of the day agreeing 'something should be done'. At least, enough to tick over until the next conference/summit... festival.
However, for my sins, there may be a few in there worth meeting. So in a sad repeat of my last whinge power, which got me invited to the Guardian Climate Change Summit (this being a festival, maybe I should mention I can play a mean triangle), if anyone is a speaker.......:)
Thursday, June 21, 2007
"Driving towards a brick wall"?
So just what were the actual outcomes of the G8 meeting last week?
I found little in the outputs that made me feel any the more secure - it was all 'moving towards', 'look at', 'review our position', 'agree to think about' - all talk, and very little actual do or will, and certainly no actual definitive targets at which to aim. I concur that it was more of a 'tactical political shift', rather than a positive way forward.
So, rather than attempt to review the entire G8 gamut, this rather eyebrow raising item from freelance journalist Ralph Surette pretty much says it all. Although written very much from a Canadian perspective, I can't find anything in it with which to disagree.
The "Captains of no progress" are still at the helm, and the "dirty, lumbering supertanker called the world economy" shows but only minimal signs of changing course.
How far off is that wall? Is there time to brake and/or change course? How about listening to the G8 String Octet? Maybe they sound a little similar to Nero fiddling as Rome burned? Or the band on the Titanic playing as she slowly went down?
Fading out .... 'For those in peril on the sea........'
Thanks due to David Suzuki for the title of this post.
I found little in the outputs that made me feel any the more secure - it was all 'moving towards', 'look at', 'review our position', 'agree to think about' - all talk, and very little actual do or will, and certainly no actual definitive targets at which to aim. I concur that it was more of a 'tactical political shift', rather than a positive way forward.
So, rather than attempt to review the entire G8 gamut, this rather eyebrow raising item from freelance journalist Ralph Surette pretty much says it all. Although written very much from a Canadian perspective, I can't find anything in it with which to disagree.
The "Captains of no progress" are still at the helm, and the "dirty, lumbering supertanker called the world economy" shows but only minimal signs of changing course.
How far off is that wall? Is there time to brake and/or change course? How about listening to the G8 String Octet? Maybe they sound a little similar to Nero fiddling as Rome burned? Or the band on the Titanic playing as she slowly went down?
Fading out .... 'For those in peril on the sea........'
Thanks due to David Suzuki for the title of this post.
Labels:
CLIMATE CHANGE,
CONFERENCE,
EMISSIONS,
ENVIROMENT,
G8
Wednesday, June 06, 2007
Interesting word, Wind. It can mean so many things.
There is the cool breeze. The less welcome result of combining beer, beans and a teenager. Or, of course, when pronounced and applied differently it can be a verb, as in 'to wind up'.
Change is in the wind as business climate turns green
Next week, courtesy of one of the speakers (David North of Tesco - to whom I am most grateful for the invitation), I have a rare opportunity to be present as a guest at one of these rarefied events: the Guardian Climate Change Summit.
Sadly, I missed the one referred to above. It will be interesting to see how they compare, or at least how my views tally with those of the correspondent responsible for this piece.
It's an interesting one, because it seems to be trying to be a few things at once, at least beyond the facts. In part supportive, and justifiably positive about genuine initiatives, but also in part pretty cautious, lest the promises fall short in the cold, hard light of subsequent days.
Frankly I am not sure what to expect next week, and will look forward to what I hope is a good opportunity to network, learn and contribute. I will of course be sharing it all here.
This Guardian piece is, at least, a fair preparation. It seems unlikely that those attending the same conference as I am will be much different to the other one, though on current evidence there are a heck of a lot of conferences with a heck of a lot of folk tasked to attend them, with titles to match. How "Junkk Male/Big 'Ed" will fit with "head of climate change" or "head of environmental management" or "climate change leader" remains to be seen. I think I will have to bite my lip and resist the temptation, at least with the climate change variety, and not ask them to confirm that they are least tasked with 'heading', or 'leading' it in a positive direction. Or just how far from the boardroom table where the money decisions get made they actually are.
There is no doubting it has indeed become a big issue for such as consumer brands, but I do note and also understand the scepticism created, after all that has been expended to date, of just 14% admitting to having a clear strategy for tackling the issue, while many fund managers saw companies primarily motivated by a desire to get "the green fraternity off their backs". Ouch.
And then there is the vast industry that exists to feed of this... concern... which I'm still trying to identify (ie: sincerely tackling the issue, or getting folk off various backs?). Just one 'consultancy' has a staff of 3,000! Doing what? I feel my ROI eyebrow raising to match the enviROI one here. If it is all about opportunity, I would dearly love to know how that is defined in terms of what gets spent to make my kids' future better. And I'd like to ask such as Jonathan Porritt, but he has yet to return my calls. Too busy? No money in it? Who can tell? Shame, as they are but a few miles away and I'd love to swap notes.
I was surprised at the research that indicated almost three in four British families would boycott firms that do not take real steps to cut their environmental impact. Really? I care a lot, but a boycott against a failure to act with 'real' steps, whatever they are. What is the measure? And, practically, if your local is Morrisons, are you going to go to the Tesco in the next town over just because 'a step' is not so good in comparison? I don't get it. And hence I don't trust it... or like it. Smacks of more no-people scoring fees to stir already very murky waters.
And, yet again, packaging seems the thrust when, as noted in recent blogs, I really have my doubts as to what significance it, or several other much-hyped 'issues' have vs. such as deforestation.
Maybe someone I'll bump into will be able to tell me, and in a way that makes me believe them. I hope so.
Change is in the wind as business climate turns green
Next week, courtesy of one of the speakers (David North of Tesco - to whom I am most grateful for the invitation), I have a rare opportunity to be present as a guest at one of these rarefied events: the Guardian Climate Change Summit.
Sadly, I missed the one referred to above. It will be interesting to see how they compare, or at least how my views tally with those of the correspondent responsible for this piece.
It's an interesting one, because it seems to be trying to be a few things at once, at least beyond the facts. In part supportive, and justifiably positive about genuine initiatives, but also in part pretty cautious, lest the promises fall short in the cold, hard light of subsequent days.
Frankly I am not sure what to expect next week, and will look forward to what I hope is a good opportunity to network, learn and contribute. I will of course be sharing it all here.
This Guardian piece is, at least, a fair preparation. It seems unlikely that those attending the same conference as I am will be much different to the other one, though on current evidence there are a heck of a lot of conferences with a heck of a lot of folk tasked to attend them, with titles to match. How "Junkk Male/Big 'Ed" will fit with "head of climate change" or "head of environmental management" or "climate change leader" remains to be seen. I think I will have to bite my lip and resist the temptation, at least with the climate change variety, and not ask them to confirm that they are least tasked with 'heading', or 'leading' it in a positive direction. Or just how far from the boardroom table where the money decisions get made they actually are.
There is no doubting it has indeed become a big issue for such as consumer brands, but I do note and also understand the scepticism created, after all that has been expended to date, of just 14% admitting to having a clear strategy for tackling the issue, while many fund managers saw companies primarily motivated by a desire to get "the green fraternity off their backs". Ouch.
And then there is the vast industry that exists to feed of this... concern... which I'm still trying to identify (ie: sincerely tackling the issue, or getting folk off various backs?). Just one 'consultancy' has a staff of 3,000! Doing what? I feel my ROI eyebrow raising to match the enviROI one here. If it is all about opportunity, I would dearly love to know how that is defined in terms of what gets spent to make my kids' future better. And I'd like to ask such as Jonathan Porritt, but he has yet to return my calls. Too busy? No money in it? Who can tell? Shame, as they are but a few miles away and I'd love to swap notes.
I was surprised at the research that indicated almost three in four British families would boycott firms that do not take real steps to cut their environmental impact. Really? I care a lot, but a boycott against a failure to act with 'real' steps, whatever they are. What is the measure? And, practically, if your local is Morrisons, are you going to go to the Tesco in the next town over just because 'a step' is not so good in comparison? I don't get it. And hence I don't trust it... or like it. Smacks of more no-people scoring fees to stir already very murky waters.
And, yet again, packaging seems the thrust when, as noted in recent blogs, I really have my doubts as to what significance it, or several other much-hyped 'issues' have vs. such as deforestation.
Maybe someone I'll bump into will be able to tell me, and in a way that makes me believe them. I hope so.
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