Phantasy Star Online – 2002 Developer Roundtable

Takao Miyoshi - Director
Satoshi Sakai - Main Designer
Akio Setsumasa - Main Programmer
Shintaro Hata - Director
Shinya Matsunami - Main Programmer
Atsushi Kanno - Planner

—Two years have passed since Phantasy Star Online debuted in December 2000. Looking back on those two years, what are your honest impressions?

Setsumasa: It was… a lot of work.

Miyoshi: I really didn't expect network games to be this difficult.

Sakai: In that sense, we might have been a bit too optimistic.

Miyoshi: We hadn't made a network game before, of course… but we never imagined it would be this daunting. (laughs)

Setsumasa: Before this, user feedback only came via those survey postcards bundled with the game. Usually, they'd trickle in right after launch and then just stop. But the second we went online, we were getting hundreds of emails every single day. It was a total deluge, day in and day out… it was incredible. (laughs)

Miyoshi: In this industry, you usually get to take a breather once a project wraps up to let your body recover. (laughs) That's the standard cycle.

—The work ends when the game is done, in other words.

Miyoshi: Yeah. Once the game was out the door, the job was done. After that, you couldn't really touch it anymore. That's just how it was.

—But Phantasy Star Online turned out to be a never-ending job.

Miyoshi: I actually ended up bedridden for about a week. (laughs) But even while resting, I kept getting calls and messages, so it was pretty tough. We had the Western launches to deal with, and we had to manage the live operations simultaneously. Then came the talk of releasing "Ver.2"… Looking back now, I'm amazed we managed to pull it off. (laughs)

—Was Ver.2 part of the original plan?

Sakai: Not at all.

Setsumasa: We figured we'd just keep adding new quests and things like that. But we didn't even have the breathing room for that much. (laughs)

Miyoshi: It was the first time we'd ever had that kind of response from a game. So we wanted to incorporate user feedback and requests as much as possible, and that's how our subsequent direction took shape.

—How did this core team originally come together?

Setsumasa: I've always loved network games, so I kept pestering the president, telling him we needed to make one.

Miyoshi: Eventually, the talk about making an online game turned into a "whoever wants in, raise your hand" situation. (laughs) That's how the planning phase kicked off.

Kanno: I had just finished my new-hire training when Miyoshi suddenly called me over. He just said, "We're making an online game, so go make 100 quests." (laughs)

Everyone: (laughs)

—When did you decide this would be a Phantasy Star game?

Miyoshi: That came much later.

Setsumasa: From the start, we knew we didn't want to do a traditional, "swords and sorcery" medieval fantasy.

Miyoshi: We talked about wanting to capture that cantina vibe from Star Wars.

Sakai: What we initially focused on was freedom. Having all kinds of characters—humans, robots, weird creatures… And we wanted to have various weapons like swords and guns. When you think in those terms, standard fantasy doesn't really fit, and we naturally leans toward sci-fi. We wanted a world where anything was possible.

Miyoshi: So, we took a rough draft to the president, and he suggested, "Why not set it in the Phantasy Star universe?" That's how it happened.

—Why did you decide to include more action-based gameplay for PSO?

Setsumasa: In a network RPG, a turn-based system makes you feel like you aren't playing directly. It lessens that sense of being connected to other people.

Miyoshi: We played a lot of PC network games before development, but I couldn't get used to that third-person perspective. It always felt like you were just watching from a distance, seeing these tiny characters move around on their own. It didn't feel right. We wanted to see our avatars clearly, and we wanted others to see them too. That's why we worked with the character designers to create a customization system that let players really express their personalities.

—I'd imagine building an action-heavy network game came with plenty of headaches?

Setsumasa: It did. Back then, "online game" was synonymous with lag and bizarre glitches. The programmers worked themselves to the bone to make sure that wouldn't happen.

Sakai: In the beginning I was very worried that the character and enemy creation was too burdensome for the design team, so I kept checking on them. They told me, "Don't sweat it," but…

Setsumasa: By the end, things got incredibly tight.

Miyoshi: The moment we integrated the communication library, the game just tanked. It got to the point where if four characters appeared, the whole thing would freeze. (laughs)

Setsumasa: Well, it was uncharted territory for everyone. But more than anything, we wanted Phantasy Star Online to feel seamless, so we pushed through it. (laughs)

—Episode 1&2 was developed for the GameCube under Hata's direction. How did that transition happen?

Hata: To be honest, I'm not entirely sure myself.

Miyoshi: Well… (wry smile) Right around that time, we—or rather, Sega—were at a turning point. They decided to stop producing the Dreamcast, so we were scrambling. We were in the middle of making Ver.2, and it was like... what are we supposed to do with this? And we were having all these arguments with President Naka about what platform to use going forward. (laughs) Somehow, we ended up settling on the Game Cube…

Matsunami: "Somehow"?

Miyoshi: Not "somehow," I guess. (laughs) The president said, "GameCube! It has to be GameCube!"

Miyoshi: Following the huge success of PSO, we got the order to make the next network game right when we were in the middle of development for Ver. 2… and everyone thought, who the heck is going to do this? That's when I called in Hata and Matsunami, who were just finishing up their previous projects.

Matsunami: We were told, "For now, just get the GameCube version done!" (laughs) When we first started tinkering with it, the first few things we tried went so smoothly that I figured it would be a breeze. But once we actually got down to work… it was a total nightmare. (laughs)

Hata: We started the Dreamcast version with absolutely no precedent for network games, and naturally, there was no precedent for online support on the GameCube either. It was frustrating that the know-how we'd accumulated from the Dreamcast was almost completely useless now.

—Why did you decide to incorporate the previous game as Episode I?

Miyoshi: We were initially developing it as a completely standalone, new title.

Sakai: The title was Phantasy Star Online, but our plan was to surprise everyone: once they actually dove in, they'd realize it was a completely new game. (laughs)

Miyoshi: But the president stepped in and said, "There will be plenty of people playing PSO for the first time on GameCube. We should make sure they can enjoy the whole story."

Hata: He didn't put it quite so gently, though. (laughs)

—Wasn't there confusion among the team members with such a complete change in direction?

Miyoshi: Yeah. Poor Hata-kun…

Setsumasa: The team was in chaos then, with members assigned to Ver.2 and Episode 1&2, all mixed up. (laughs)

Hata: We were already struggling to get the 4-player split-screen working. Adding the entire previous game on top of that felt impossible. The GameCube is a powerful machine, so we eventually figured we could make it work, but the planners and designers kept asking for more changes. Eventually, I resigned myself to my fate and said, "Fine, I'll take it all on!" (laughs)

Matsunami: It was brutal, though. (laughs)

—Being a sequel, the scenario must have been quite a challenge to write.

Hata: That was Kanno's cross to bear. (laughs)

Kanno: I handled most of the quests for the Dreamcast version, and I was careful not to be too rigid with the setting. The theme of PSO was "once-in-a-lifetime encounters"—you meet and part with various characters, and in doing so gradually reveal the world around you. I thought avoiding strict constraints on the setting would allow more flexibility for future developments and player freedom. That approach made Episode 1&2 a bit of a headache, though. (laughs)

Hata: Ver.2 was unexpected, but Episode 2 was unexpected too. (laughs)

Kanno: I worried that setting the story 100 years later or in another dimension would just confuse new players. So, I rebuilt the narrative using old ideas and future quest concepts I'd been sitting on.

—How did you come up with the idea for Heathcliff Flowen's character?

Kanno: I wanted to develop a story that mirrored Rico's tale from Episode 1, so I fleshed out the background I'd already drafted for Flowen. Once it took shape, I showed it to Hata and Miyoshi.

Miyoshi: My first reaction was, "Who's Flowen?" (laughs) I just thought he was some guy with a sword. (laughs)

—What led to bringing Eri back from a previous quest?

Kanno: Well… the scenario I was writing just kept getting darker and darker. It was getting very heavy, and I felt stuck. I needed a major shift to brighten things up, and I wondered if we could use that girl, Elly, who had left such an impression in Episode 1. When I asked the character designer, they were all for it. Once I decided to include her, the writing became much easier. (laughs)

—With the platform change from Dreamcast to GameCube, did the gameplay also gain a lot more freedom?

Hata: With Ver.2, I had this frustrating feeling where I wanted to change things but couldn't because of hardware limitations… So this time, I really wanted to accommodate as many requests as possible, even new design ideas. Having to announce new features at every pre-release event was exhausting though. (laughs) But the reactions from the fans who came were really encouraging.

Sakai: We had so many design ideas we wanted to try, like showing off massive open areas or adding verticality to the terrain.

Setsumasa: Programming-wise, this game was originally supposed to have no elevation changes…

Matsunami: We went all out with the textures too. It was like, make everything reflective! (laughs) I'm really confident about the water effects and reflections. I hope people stop to enjoy them.

Kanno: I spent a lot of time huddled with Sakai and the programmers working on the enemy placement and boss intros.

—People often say the Seabed Plant stage is too hard. (laughs)

Kanno: And then there are tons of people who play it for like 1000 hours… Personally, I'd probably get bored. (laughs) I wanted to give them something challenging to really sink their teeth into.

—Why did you add three more playable character classes?

Miyoshi: This was to encourage players of the previous game to play through Episode 1 again.

Sakai: I mean, you've got to have new characters and new items. We also added a lot more animations.

Miyoshi: I'm still amazed we managed to fit everything, including the multi-mode, onto the ROM. (laughs)

—Finally, Miyoshi, could you share a word about the appeal of PSO and your plans for the future?

Miyoshi: Up until now, we've approached network RPGs with a challenger's mindset. There was stuff that didn't go over well, but at the same time, the reception was more positive than we ever dreamed.. The Symbol Chat is the prime example of that. The joy of creating your own wholly original character and communicating with people worldwide is something that's only possible online. We want to make network RPGs a standard genre that anyone can pick up and enjoy.

Design Staff Roundtable

Akikazu Mizuno - Illustrator
Wataru Watanabe - Designer (Characters, Weapons, Mags)
Yuki Takahashi - Designer (Characters, Weapons, Mags)
Masatoshi Yasumura - Designer (Enemies, Bosses)
Kosei Kitamura - Designer (Backgrounds)
Akira Mikame - Designer (Backgrounds)

—First off, Sakai, could you introduce the design team and their respective roles?

Sakai: Sure. First, Mizuno handles the illustrations. He drew all the official artwork. Enemies, including bosses, were done by me and Yamamura. Then we have Watanabe and Takahashi handling characters and weapons… and Mags, too. Our background team will be joining us a bit later.

—Approximately how many design staff were involved in PSO?

Sakai: There was quite a bit of turnover depending on the period. At peak times, we had over 10 people, I think. This core group here has been with the project since the early stages.

—Mizuno-san, did you draw all of the new illustrations featured in the gallery of this book?

Mizuno: Yeah, those are all mine.

Sakai: You sure drew a lot. (laughs)

—How did you end up being chosen as the official illustrator for PSO?

Mizuno: I volunteered…

Sakai: Initially, since it was such a big title, we considered hiring an outside illustrator. But with an online game, you’re looking at a very long development cycle. So we thought it might be easier to work with someone in-house. (laughs) When we asked if anyone wanted to do it, Mizuno raised his hand. (laughs)

—Did Mizuno participate in the character design process?

Mizuno: No, I didn't. My illustrations were based on the settings established by the two character designers.

—What was the biggest challenge when you first started drawing these characters?

Mizuno: Each character had hats and costumes with so many parts. Just memorizing them all was tough. I quickly got the hang of drawing Humans, but the other characters took forever. (laughs) I often had to pull up my old illustrations as a reference.

—Were certain characters easier to draw than others?

Mizuno: Yeah. I've memorized the Humans and HUnewearls so well I can draw them without looking at anything now, but the FOmars and robot types… (Mizuno looks at Watanabe. Watanabe glares back at him)

—How were the character design responsibilities divided?

Sakai: Let’s see, Watanabe handled the male characters and robots, and Takahashi handled the females.

—If you look closely at the RAcasts and other robot characters, the linework and silhouettes are actually quite subtle and varied.

Watanabe: Well, they aren't just robots; they're androids. (laughs) At first, I was drawing them with a much heavier robotic feel, but since they are androids, I had to revise them to retain more human features.

Sakai: Also, since robots appear as enemies, we needed to make sure you could instantly tell whether a character was a player or a foe.

—Were the new classes in Episode 1&2 actually planned for the original Dreamcast version?

Sakai: Yes. Initially, we had the designers create every conceivable combination. There were aliens too, right? (laughs) Well… since we went with FOnewm and FOnewearl, the FOmars got cut. (laughs)

Takahashi: I mean, I never thought FOnewm would actually get approved. But if they were in, I insisted we absolutely had to include FOnewearl too.

—Did the two of you also come up with the hairstyles and costume patterns?

Takahashi: Basically, yes.

—There are some playful patterns too, like afros and sunglasses...

Takahashi: Somehow they just snuck in.

Watanabe: I thought it would be funny… and those sunglasses were Mizuno's idea.

Mizuno: Ah, right. (laughs)

Takahashi: Also, for the HUnewearl and FOnewearl, we rigged the costume colors to change based on the player’s skin tone. I’d love to see people use those to form an idol group. (laughs)

—How did you divide the work for the weapons and Mags?

Watanabe: Takahashi handled the magic-based ones, and I did the rest. For the mags, we just set some basic rules and then both of us went to town.

—The design sketches for the firearms are incredibly detailed. The RAmar outfits too... Are you a bit of a military buff?

Watanabe: Well… yeah, a little.

Sakai: A little? You're kidding me!

Takahashi: Watanabe and Yasumura have pretty serious mecha fetishes. (laughs) I mean, just look at the Yasminkov series…

Watanabe: Right. Yasumura kept insisting on modeling the weapons after real bullet cartridges and calibers, so we originally called those weapons "Yasumura-shiki" (Yasumura Style).

—So that's where the name Yasminkov comes from!

Yasumura: Apparently so. (laughs) After all, you’ve gotta have real-bullet weapons in a game like this… proper ballistics.

Everyone: (laughs)

—What was the basic concept for the enemy design in PSO?

Sakai: We decided on four categories from the start: Primitive Beasts (Native), Altered Beasts, Mechs (Machine), and Dark-type enemies. Then we set basic rules for each and built them out.

—What were those rules?

Sakai: Primitive Beasts (Native) breathe fire but don't use beams. Altered Beasts have glowing parts that can shoot beams. Mechs… well, they're mechs. (laughs) Dark-type enemies are kind of this inexplicable presence… a more surreal image. Personally, I'm not really into enemies that are just gross. I'm heavily influenced by tokusatsu shows. So it's all about the kaiju for me. (laughs) Mecha enemies aren't really my specialty…

—So that's why you brought in Yasumura.

Yasumura: Sakai asked me, "want to give it a shot?" and without hesitation I said "Yes!" (laughs)

Sakai: I had just been looking for someone good at mecha design when Yasumura came along.

Yasumura: PSO was actually my first real experience designing in 3D, so at first I struggled a lot and I was pretty down about it. (bitter smile) Sakai gave me lots of encouragement and tough love, and somehow I managed to pull through.

Sakai: When I first saw the Sinow Beat enemy, I was like, "Whoa, that's cool!" and gave it the green light immediately. Although after that I ended up imposing my own tastes a bit. "Put horns on the leader!"

Yasumura: But I learned that making things easily recognizable is a huge part of the job. By the time we got to Episode 1&2, I had more breathing room to focus on the fine details.

—How were the boss enemies divided up?

Sakai: I handled the Dragon first. After that, I left the Cave and Mine bosses to others, while I wrestled with Dark Falz. (laughs) For Episode 1&2, Yasumura handled Barba Ray, and I took care of the rest.

—Now, let's bring in the two background artists. Sakai, please introduce them.

Sakai: For the background design in PSO, we split the team into two groups, each handling specific maps. Kitamura and Mikame served as chief designers for their respective teams.

—Which maps did each team handle?

Kitamura: Um… I handled the Forest, Caves, Mines, VR Spaceship, and Gal Da Val Island.

Mikame: I did the Ruins, VR Temple, Plant… and I handled the City for both Episode 1 and 2.

—Did you receive any initial guidelines for the map concepts?

Kitamura: Not really… it was fairly open-ended. We mostly just tried to make things look different from the previous maps. (laughs) Honestly, we designers ended up proposing most of the ideas ourselves.

—Was City the first one you made?

Mikame: No, City was actually pretty late in the process… We started with something made for the demo, then reworked it several times.

Kitamura: The forest was first.

—It's an open, beautiful landscape.

Kitamura: Since it's the very first stage, we wanted to start with a relaxed, pastoral atmosphere. Then the later stages would gradually transition to harsher, more intense landscapes. That’s why it starts raining as soon as you enter Area 2 of the Forest, it's meant to stir up a bit of unease.

—I see. So it was done for narrative purposes.

Kitamura: You fight a fire-breathing dragon, then move into the volcanic caves, and eventually find a mechanical facility buried deep underground. That kind of foreshadowing or contextual thread runs throughout the entire game.

—What about the Ruins area?

Mikame: Here, the world changes drastically, so I also shifted my design approach. I guess that, above all, I was sort of baffled by the idea of an underground ruin being accessed by a spaceship…

—For episode 1&2, did you make any design changes or upgrades to the maps?

Kitamura: Well, if you recall, it wasn't a PSO development to begin with. The original designs had already been pushed to the absolute limit. Around that time, I took a personal vacation to Yakushima, and that made me want to visit China's stunning Huanglong, a UNESCO World Heritage site. (laughs) That's the inspiration behind Gal Da Val Island. Initially, the tower was even a five-story pagoda. (laughs)

—The water effects in the Seabed Plant area are really impressive.

Mikame: Yeah. We really pushed the reflections to the absolute limit. In some rooms, you get reflections on the left, right, top, and bottom… some spots are crazy. Plus, if you get close enough, there's a hidden spot where you can see dolphins. (laughs)

—So there are hidden easter eggs in PSO?

Mikame: A certain area in the lower levels of Seabed Plant connects to the underground waterways of De Rol Le.

Kitamura: Huh, really?

Mikame: We didn't really touch on it in the main story though.

—What other hidden things are there?

Kitamura: Um, actually, the VR landscapes are virtualized images of the homeworlds of those Pioneer II colonists.

—Is that so!

Kitamura: You can see it in one of the CG illustration too: the spaceships floating in the sky are the same ones flying around Pioneer 2 in the opening.

—Did the design teams also create the boss stages?

Mikame: Yes, we did.

—What process do you follow when designing the boss stages?

Kitamura: We usually discussed the planned battle mechanics for each boss with Sakai, and based our designs around that. For the dragon, we were told it burrows into the ground in a cave-like room… and I remember thinking… "burrows"??? (laughs)

—Are there any specific boss stages you’re particularly proud of?

Kitamura: For me, it's the Gol Dragon battle. The image is like a virtual colosseum. You're forced to face this incredibly powerful enemy at the very end… And I wanted to express the feeling of being watched on a monitor during the fight.

Mikame: For me, it's definitely the junkyard where you fight Olga Flow at the end.

Sakai: I asked them to have the fight take place while descending a vertical shaft. It was pretty unreasonable of me. (laughs)

Mikame: Rather than a dark, filthy place, we designed it to feel like a melancholy spot where things have been discarded.

Kitamura: Ultimately, just like in Episode 1, the game ends in the deepest part of the facility.

—Thank you all so much for taking time for us today despite your busy schedules.

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