• 17 Posts
  • 1.18K Comments
Joined 3 years ago
Cake day: June 14th, 2023
  • MisterFrog@lemmy.worldtoWork Reform@lemmy.world•The light at the end of the tunnel is getting much closer. KEEP PUSHING
    1·
    2 days ago

    So I’ll worry about leftist over-regulation when it becomes a problem

    Not sure if the DSA is your vibe then, since it’s openly anti-capitalist, but again, I’m not from the US and known little about the organisation.

    Perhaps some leftists will bring ya along and change your views, or vice versa.

    I’m part of Victorian/Australian Socialists, and on the topic of “over-regulation”, I’d much rather see a world where the workers have meaningful control over their workplaces (currently, companies are dictatorships, coerced with the threat of poverty)

    I’d much rather have industries regulated by bodies comprised of the willing (which would primarily be the workers in those industries, and whoever else cares) who will discuss and vote on regulation, with an overarching national body keeping them in check. (So, similar to regulators of today that work within legislation, but with the difference that people who are making/voting on the regulations actually know what the fuck they’re talking about)

    “Over-regulation” becomes much less necessary when organisations aren’t run purely for profit since the incentives are different. I also think over regulation happens when requirements are made way too inflexible - which isn’t a a feature of socialism nor capitalism. That already happens all over the world under capitalism as well.

    Just saying, being very left wing (like me) doesn’t equal over regulation.

  • MisterFrog@lemmy.worldtoWork Reform@lemmy.world•The light at the end of the tunnel is getting much closer. KEEP PUSHING
    71·
    2 days ago

    I’m not in the US and not super knowledgeable about the DSA, but this isn’t my vibe at all as a blanket statement.

    Many members might think what you’re asserting, perhaps, but doesn’t seem to be the organisation’s stated platform at all:

    https://www.dsausa.org/

    I’m not in love with the ICE collaboration, and using private contractors for “city-run” grocery stores by Mamdani, but the DSA seems faaaaaaaaaaaar better than practically any other organisation with any momentum in the USA.

    Perhaps quit your whining and actually do something to push the USA and the DSA organisation, further left. I have no idea what the internal organisation governance is like, but I’d imagine it’d be at least somewhat meaningfully democratically elected.

    You and your comrades ought to consider joining to make interventions, which can be even more effective if you do so together.

    We leftists should always intervene in the places we can be most effective. (Not an argument for lesser-evilism, an argument for bringing those somewhat further right, further left).

    There is no point appealing to the Democratic party establishment in my view, but building a movement via the DSA to essentially take over the Democratic party seems like a decent strategy (the USA having the terrible voting system that is has)

    The DSA (to me, from the outside) seems like a good opportunity to make socialist arguments to those who are primed to listen.

    Or you know, you can just poo pop them from the outside (and perhaps you’re right to do that, if their aims are completely unacceptable).

    They may be a reformist organisation, and not a revolutionary one, but present a very good opportunity to build a working class movement, that eventually becomes revolutionary.

    Just some thoughts, you do whatever.

  • MisterFrog@lemmy.worldtoWork Reform@lemmy.world•The Dangers of Socialism they warned us about...
    1·
    2 days ago

    The USSR could theoretically have done so, if they stuck with their vanguard party idea and didn’t pervert it by using the power obtained to oppress people and otherwise commit human rights violations.

    What your describing is a benevolent dictatorship. Having a party that’s not beholden to the workers isn’t socialism, in my view. The workers need to have control over society.

    They ousted the Tsars and Mensheviks without elections. That’s not democracy.

    Sure, but this isn’t a system of government.

    Or an even more pure example in theory would be a hypothetical nation of 10 people, 3 of which are oligarchs. 3 people imprison the oligarchs and redistribute their wealth to the other 4, whether they want that or not.

    This also isn’t socialism. Socialism isn’t just reappropriation of accumulated wealth, it’s the control of all parts of society by the workers, including the workplace. If you’ve got 3 people deciding everything for the other 7, that’s not socialism, in my view.

    You’ll find a lot of MLs online (and one I met in person): oh but China listens to and considers what’s best for the workers and implements that!

    1. No they don’t (in the case of China)
    2. Being considered is not meaningful control and is revocable at any time by just not listening…

    My conclusion, socialism without democracy doesn’t make sense and isn’t a thing.

  • MisterFrog@lemmy.worldtoWork Reform@lemmy.world•The Dangers of Socialism they warned us about...
    21·
    5 days ago

    Capitalism is authoritarian on at least the company scale (and more so at a society level, when you identify the coercive control that’s exerted because you can either toe the line or be homeless - as a oversimplification).

    So, you are perhaps correct that the problem is with authoritianism, but it’s just that capitalism, as an economic system, is authoritian.

    If you can’t vote on who manages your workplace, and have to comply else lose your job (and depending on the country, you house, your healthcare, etc) that’s authoritarian, just in a slightly different context.

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