cross-posted from: https://toast.ooo/post/15368324
The frontman of British punk rap band Bob Vylan was denied entry to Germany, detained at the Berlin airport, and ultimately deported to the United Kingdom last month due to his pro-Palestine statements.
German federal police justified deporting the band’s vocalist on June 15, referencing a performance at the Glastonbury Festival in England in 2025 where Bob Vylan led a chant of “Death, death to the IDF,” or the Israel Defense Forces.
A police file on Robinson-Foster obtained by The Intercept alleges that he disseminated antisemitic narratives and Hamas propaganda that could “radicalise certain segments of the [German] population” and serve as “ideological justification” for terrorist groups or individuals. It also says that Robinson-Foster poses a threat to Germany’s public security and public order. Allowing him into the country would cause “considerable reputational damage” by creating the impression that Germany was making “no effort to prevent the spread of the propagated antisemitism and the associated calls to violence.”
Meanwhile Nazi trillionnaire Elon Musk can come and go as he pleases.
It sounds like Israeli lobbyists have captured German officials.
As we’re learning in the States, Israel isn’t a Jewish nation, it’s a rich-people nation.
It’s not pro-palestine, why do people keeping saying that? It’s anti-genocide.
Because the people in charge of most Western governments and major news outlets almost invariably consider such inconvenient truths threatening and offensive 😮💨
Shameful. Especially from Germany.
To our defense: we grew up with being afraid to even use the word “Jew”. So after decades of shaming us, we can’t just go with “Jews bad, free Palestine” so we just shut the fuck up to be safe. It’s a reflex.
Me, personally, I just don’t care. Because before the Jews, noone cared about the treatment of women, girls and LGBTQs in Palestine. Many probably didn’t even know where or what Palestine is.
we can’t just go with “Jews bad, free Palestine”
Correct, you should NOT say that for fucks sake.
“Israel bad, free Palestine” is what you should say.
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Israel is a Jewish state, but that isn’t the same things as Jews as a whole. Most Jews do not live in Israel and do not agree with what Israel is doing. Most Jews are not bad.
Isreal =/= Jews
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What’s important is that you’ve found a way to maintain a simplistic world view.
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Stupid and proud. What a catch!
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No shit!
we can’t just go with “Jews bad, free Palestine” so we just shut the fuck up to be safe. It’s a reflex.
Shutting the fuck up when there’s a genocide ongoing is how you go back to your nazi days. It’s all excuses, the german government is fine with the gaza genocide the same way all other governments and leaders are.
I’m not the government but I just don’t care. Oppressors vs oppressors. Not that my opinion would matter at all. But all those big words thrown here (not just by you) but also no action. Yeah, be against that genocide or not. They don’t care.
How are a people that have been getting genocided for the past 80 years oppressors?
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Seems like Germans “shutting the fuck up to be safe” is exactly what permitted the genocide of Germans, too
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No, not really. Would you like to explain how it’s flawed?
Germans and their logic. Pffff!
Imho it sounds like excuse for complicity and the wrong lesson to learn.
If you get prosecuted for shooting your neighbor and shamed about it, what kind of leap is it to think the neighbors gets free pass on shooting others?Why should I get an excuse? I just don’t care.
But it’s not “Jews bad”. Nobody is saying that except the Nazis trying to sneak in to pro-Palestine discussions.
It’s absolutley shameful. Even German language communities on this site like [email protected] just remove German public media stories on Israel if posted there.
Oh, I absolutely get where it’s coming from. But at some point we have to realise that Netanyahu is maybe playing the antisemitism card a little more often than would be warranted.
Makes me think of a younger sibling going “if you don’t do what I want I’ll tell mommy you hit me, then you’ll get in trouble.”Removed by mod
Germany is the second largest supplier of weapons to Israel.
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Ew, lol. The world will be a better place once you leave it.
Well the community just got better, at least.
Hey Germany,
IDF != Israel != Jewish people
The IDF absolutely is Israel. Israel has a conscription so most citizens in Israel are active participants in the genocide of the Palestinian people. Not to mention the state of Israel is an illegal settler-colonial apartheid state so all Israelis in Israel are living on stolen Palestinian land.
However some of the strongest supporters of Palestinians have been Jewish people of all forms, including a few Israelis.
(IDF == Israel) != Jewish people
Sir, that’s comes out to
True != Jewish people. It does the same thing right now, but that’s probably not what you intended and may cause bugs at some point down the line.Only lemmings would use comparison operators to explain political topics and then have the replies evaluate the expression lol.
Ok I’m trying to figure out how to work an ∃ into this conversation…
Old, outdated news: Bob Vylan’s frontman Bobby Vylan’s initial German entry ban has already been revoked by authorities.
The real threat spreading propaganda and supporting terrorists is the german government.
Not exactly the bright future we envisioned.
“abloo bloo i cant believe the american imperialist first amendment what a dreadfully barbaric thing see in superior europe you can ban antisemitism” “oh no”
Israel did a very good job buying all the politicians the past couple years. Can’t wait until Iran or Yemen drops a nuclear warhead on Tel Aviv at 3AM. Ideally with solid fuel. With 200 regular rockets to keep the Iron Dome busy until ammunition is depleted.
Because Israel does not have any civilians anymore. They are all Zionists. The real Israelis moved away a long time ago.
Surely that will solve all of the world’s current problems and then we’ll all live happily ever after!
Germany sux but “being denied entry” is not “deportation”. If he was stopped at the airport he legally never entered Germany and was not deported. This makes it sound like they are stopping people on the streets and kicking them out. Germany is on the wrong side of history here (as always) but I wouldn’t call it a “free speech crackdown”. It’s quite normal for countries to block the entry of influencers or politicians that want to promote messages the government doesn’t agree with. UK recently blocked the entry of some far-right Polish politicians. I doubt many people here would oppose blocking the entry of Andrew Tate to any country.
And I’m just saying that because people will later point to this case and say “Eu Is An OpPreSsIvE StaTe!”. >
And I’m just saying that because people will later point to this case and say “Eu Is An OpPreSsIvE StaTe!”. >
If the messages they don’t agree with are these calling out an ongoing genocide where thousand of kids are being murdered EU is much worst than an oppressive state.
Alright I’ll bite. First of all, no one gives a fuck about what Andrew Tate has to say. He’s documented raping and facilitating the rape of children.
Edit: no one is acting on laws based on Andrew tates words, he would be stopped, hopefully, because he is a danger to children
That said, although it’s normal for countries to do it, that doesn’t make it right.
I’m not here to say this specific case is right or wrong, but this reasoning falls short.
Loads of young people follow tate, what are you smoking?
Ill fix it. In this context, no one is denying Andrew Tate passage because of his words. It because he is a danger to children.
I see it like this:
This musician: Hello, I’m a foreign citizen. Can I enter you country to spread this message among your citizens?
Germany: No.
I think it would be completely fine to block manosphere influencers, antivaxers, holocaust deniers and white supremacists from entering like that so I have to agree that stopping pro-Palestinian activists is also fine. It’s part of the governments policy, not some fundamental right. If Germans disagree with this policy they can elect different government.
It’s different for German citizens, they do have the right to talk about anything they want. Foreigners don’t simply have some fundamental right to enter Germany as they wish. Not sure about EU citizens but here we’re talking about UK.
I think it would be completely fine to block manosphere influencers, antivaxers, holocaust deniers and white supremacists from entering like that so I have to agree that stopping pro-Palestinian activists is also fine.
One of these is not like the others - grow some fucking morals.
Yeah I guess that’s where we differ. Aside from immediate danger and schotastic terrorism, free speech should reign.
All of those people can absolutely go fuck themselves and drown in cold tar, but once you start to accept censorship, you’re going to lose.
Side note, that musician or any person for that matter will never come close to what the Internet already spreads. It’s theatre.
I’m sure philosophers argued about this many times already. Personally I don’t think we need to allow people to spread misinformation in order to ‘win’. For example we’re constantly flooded by anti-EU propaganda from Russia that is actually moving a lot of people to support the far right but we shouldn’t do anything to address it because ‘free speech’. I don’t buy it. It’s just a ‘slippery slope’ type argument. I think we’re perfectly capable of limiting harmful content without losing all freedoms. And we should. Obviously simply letting government decide what citizens can and cannot say publicly would be terrible but I’m completely fine with them not letting all the foreigners enter EU and say whatever they want.
Obviously simply letting government decide what citizens can and cannot say publicly would be terrible
but I’m completely fine with them not letting all the foreigners enter EU and say whatever they want.
These are the same thing.
I think what you’re looking for is better education. It’s the only way shit like this gets better. Ban it? People get upset and allow fascism. Allow it? Fascism.
The only way fascism takes root is with people that aren’t educated about it. It’s why the far right bans and burns books, or in my case in the US they have been defunding education for decades.
Blanket bans or arbitrarily allowing or denying people entry is not a solution.
Side note, I do appreciate you talking this out
No, foreigners are not citizens. You’re an absolutists that see any, even the smallest, limit to any right as equally bad. I think some limits are OK and they don’t mean we lose that rights. We don’t have to let foreign agents spread propaganda in our countries to protect free speech of our citizens. Sure, the government gets to decide who’s the foreign agent and what’s considered propaganda but I’m fine with that. I think long term limits like that actually help us preserve democracy and protect us from oppression, not lead to it.
Especially in cases where people try to bring attention to genocide in Palestine?
And what is the difference between citizen speech and foreigner speech?
Really, define that line.
Edit: and also, no absolutist, I’ve defined what I think is acceptable carveouts. We can define further, and I’d be all for that, but just denying people speech because you disagree is never the answer, especially when it’s about what this case is about.
Replying twice because I’m not sure it will ping you that I edited my other comment.
Of all the countries/political-entities in the world, when it comes to die juden I’ll give Germany a pass: there is no way to shake the NAZI legacy of genocide.
Everyone else, especially you USA, needs to condemn Netanyahu’s fascist state and genocide and take some action of some kind.
Of all the countries/political-entities in the world, when it comes to die juden I’ll give Germany a pass
On the contrary: Germany of all countries should realize that the way Israel is treating Palestinians is increasingly similar to how the Nazis treated Jews.
there is no way to shake the NAZI legacy of genocide.
That’s exactly why they should know better.
Yeah. I agree.
But the descendants of the people who tried to exterminate Jews are stuck: they have to support their ancestors’ victims. They also have a responsibility to prevent it happening again to anyone else. They can’t do both and they can’t do neither.
They know better, but they can’t act on it.
they have to support their ancestors’ victims.
Israel is ruled by mentally hill fascists who are destroying their own country for their personal goals, helping the people living in israel out of this regime sound like a good way to support their ancestors’ victims
Yes, but have you considered the profits that can be made in the Military Industrial Complex? /S
I agree, entirely. Politicians however are
fucking idiot cowardsslaves to diplomacy when it comes to other countries.
“Germans get a pass on supporting genocide” is the wildest take I’ve read all day
I like how you quoted something I didn’t say.
I mean that Germany having a real tough time coming up with a good response is understandable: they’re between a rock and a hard place.
I mean that Germany having a real tough time coming up with a good response is understandable: they’re between a rock and a hard place.
It’s not easy for governments to call out others because they are all as much as guilty
Yeah it’s called a paraphrase genius it’s when you accurately capture the meaning of what someone else said in fewer words
“yeah, it’s called I’m a fucking cunt”Oh wow, it really does work.Sorry, that was uncalled for.
Your paraphrasing is wrong if you think that’s the essence of my statement. That’s on me for not being clear enough.
Unless, that is, you are trying to construct a strawman argument. In which case you’re arguing disengeneously and can be ignored.
So what are you giving Germany “a pass” on???
Having a hard time choosing weather to support or condemn Israel.
Any country should just be condemning them. Maybe the country responsible for the Holocaust might have a harder decision to make.
I see where you’re coming from, but Germany isn’t having a hard time at all. They’ve taken a pretty definitive stance in favor of Israel and against Palestine in this conflict. They outright support Israel’s genocide campaign
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_support_for_Israel_in_the_Gaza_war
