About F’ing time.
Why not replace McConnell anyways and let them prove otherwise?
Because Kentucky law says Beshear would have to call an election so a Republican would get in anyway. But that law might be unconstitutional from what I’ve read. But also is it a fight worth spending political capital and legal fees on when realistically it won’t change anything and there’ll be a new Republican Kentucky senator in 6 months?
I thought special elections were trending less MAGA these days.
Its still Kentucky.
Which has a Democrat for a governor. Senators are up for statewide elections just like governors.
Cross party governors are a very different thing than cross party senators. Massachusetts and California have both had Republican governors and at no point did that indicate the state was turning red. Cross party governors can be seen as outsiders that will pump the brakes on a single party establishment legislature.
Beshear has been in office through a couple Senate elections and they were still Republican blowouts.
Scott Brown though. That moment wasn’t altogether dissimilar to this one.
Republican is a Republican is a Republican. The corpse is probably still a better option.
The corpse is basically in a permanent “present” vote, or even less then that? Because it can delay quorum?
McConnell’s absence is not affecting quorum, but it is one less R vote for as long as he’s out.
I heard the bigger “issue” is the comitties that he is on may tip towards the Dems.
a Republican would get in anyway
That Republican might be Thomas Massie, though, which they REALLY want to avoid at any cost.
Absolute best case scenario.
Hmm, now that’s an intriguing explanation.
I thought Kentucky law said Beshear could appoint a replacement. And that’s why the GOPers are dragging their heels till August 3.
No. Kentucky law specifically says Beshear cannot appoint a replacement. But he can call a special election, which might have different candidates than the general election for his seat in November. The August 3 date is floating around as the deadline after which Beshear can’t call that election.
From what I understood, there are opposing laws in conflict with one another, one stating Beshear can appoint a replacement directly, and one stating he cannot. What he could do is go forward with an appointment, but then he will be caught up in legal proceedings anyway until the litigation on which law is binding can be made. So it will be a bit of a stalemate anyway.
I am likely to be incorrect in my understanding, but I remember reading that somewhere.
I think the state house passed the special election law, but didn’t change the constitution, which still says ‘appointment by governor’ - maybe for “state offices” though?
This is part of it. Constitutionally, the governor can only appoint for state offices, but there was historical precedent for the governor to appoint federal offices. And you are right that the state had passed some laws requiring a special election, but it also had some crazy length like 56-days required between the call and the election taking place to let all counties be notified. (As best I can remember reading. It’s all a bit of a mess.)
The more annoying thing is the two rulebooks. McConnell has tended to make up his own rules (and justify them with legalese) and ignore the ones he doesn’t like. Beshear is trying to play by the rules, and not recognizing the actual power shifts that have happened. And so, here we sit in sending-angry-letter mode for the time being.
Edit: Comment below has better details https://lemmy.world/comment/25004076
K
The Kentucky constitution says that. Which supersedes the law the Republicans rammed through, despite their lies to the contrary.
This is misinformed. This is what the Kentucky Constitution says.
Note that when it’s discussing appointments versus elections, it’s specifically talking about “city, town, county, district or State officers”.
When we get toward the end (not having mentioned the US House or the US Senate):
Vacancies in all offices for the State at large, or for districts larger than a county, shall be filled by appointment of the Governor; all other appointments shall be made as may be prescribed by law.
This leaves the KGA complete leeway to prescribe how replacements are appointed to the House and Senate, including holding an election first, functionally reducing the appointment to one choice.
Edit: And in case you think “offices for the State at large” is ambiguous enough to include the US House and US Senate, please see sections 69 to 96 of the Kentucky Constitution.
yes, because otherwise Beshear looks like a total do-nothing tool, and the dems REALLY need to prove to their voters that they actually do something, or people wont get off their couches again.
Wasting time and money of a guaranteed loss is WORSE than being a “do-nothing tool”. Why do people automatically assuming “doing” is automatically good? You can DO bad things.
If Democrats want to help elect Republicans because they’re too stupid to see that, we’re fucked anyway.
Plus new Senators need to be sworn in which I’m sure if a dem won the special election the republican controlled senate would just simply not swear them in.
Cool, let’s fuckin make them do that bullshit then.
I’m tired of going “well if we fight back, they’ll just fight back”. Like yeah, they are actively fighting us. We are in a fight. We’re being punched in the face. If we punch them, they will punch us. If we don’t punch them, they will still punch us.
I’m tired of being punched. I want to punch.
So is the logic that it’s best if the seat remain vacant and not risk a younger more alive republican to be elected in a special election and sworn in, where as if a democrat won the seat, they’d basically not be sworn in anyway and it’d be as if the seat were intentionally vacant?
Republicans are stalling so the governor can’t appoint an interim senator. There won’t be a chance either way for a younger more alive republican. The rest of this term is basically a wash for that seat.
Ohh I see, so the governor would be able to appoint an interim senator if the seat is vacant before Aug 3rd or whatever day, but unlikely that they’d ever get sworn in or do anything more productive than an empty seat?
And the election requires 63 days’ notice to the sheriffs in each county. And two elections a few weeks apart is going to annoy and confuse voters.
And (extrapolating the process for vacancies in primary elections) Beshear isn’t the one who formally recognizes McConnell’s absence for the purposes of the election; his Republican SoS is.
And if Beshear calls up an election without having properly verified only for McConnell to show real proof of life, the Democratic governor of a deeply red state with two more years left is going to have a scandal on his hands.
They’re basically asking Beshear to snatch a Democratic scandal from the jaws of a Republican one.
And if Beshear calls up an election without having properly verified only for McConnell to show real proof of life, the Democratic governor of a deeply red state with two more years left is going to have a scandal on his hands.
We need to crucify any Democrat that thinks this way. Oh, no, a scandal! Anything but that! Cowards, the lot of 'em. Never willing to take a chance on anything. No desire to throw something at the wall and see what sticks. Meanwhile Republicans try a dozen things hoping a quarter of them stick. This is why Republicans deliver for their base, while Democrats don’t do shit. Democrats are sniveling cowards.
That law is unconstitutional. The Kentucky constitution says the governor can just appoint a replacement.
As I pointed out in another comment: the Kentucky Constitution does not say this.
Any vacancy not covered (which in the Kentucky Constitution’s case are city, town, county, district, State) is filled as “prescribed by law”.
Look, I’m no expert in Kentucky law, but I do know you’re not representing this fully. The consensus among lawyers when interviewed on this matter in the press is that there’s legal ambiguity, and good case can be made for both points. I don’t understand it fully myself, but it’s obviously not as cut and dry as you’re pretending.
but I do know you’re not representing this fully.
All I’ve done is link to the relevant section of the Kentucky Constitution and (in my other comment) explain what it says. If you think any part of that section is ambiguous, if you think my interpretation is wrong in some specific way, if you’d like to cite some other relevant portion of the Kentucky Constitution I’m not considering, or especially if you’d like to provide any citation to the counterarguments of “lawyers interviewed on this matter”, I invite that.
But right now, I’m looking at the section of the Kentucky Constitution that provides for replacements of vacant offices, and not only do I see nothing that would bar the KGA from making this law, I see broad, affirmative, plain-English authority given to them to do exactly that.
I’m not trying to hoodwink you with half-truths; I know of literally no other information that would weigh on whether or not the Kentucky Constitution enables the General Assembly to prescribe the means of appointment. I don’t know what to do with “you’re not representing this fully” and a vague allusion to some alleged legal consensus when I’m representing it as fully as I know how.
I’m not sure how you haven’t head about this.
Beshear argued those laws may conflict with the Kentucky Constitution.
“It says I appoint all state officers when there’s a vacancy. The question is, does that apply to federal offices? Well, before there was ever a law in Kentucky on how this would work, multiple appointments were made by governors, assumingly under that provision,” he said.
Again, you’re clearly missing something here if the governor himself is claiming the power to fill vacancies by appointment.
[Beshear:] It says I appoint all state officers when there’s a vacancy. The question is, does that apply to federal offices? Well, before there was ever a law in Kentucky on how this would work, multiple appointments were made by governors, assumingly under that provision.
Until Beshear sues and wins (or at least until he files a suit), I’m going to be bold enough to challenge that. The wording clearly does not support what Beshear’s saying. First, I’ll note preliminarily that the section covers all elective offices*, so this is all we need to read from:
Except as otherwise provided in this Constitution, vacancies in all elective offices shall be filled by election or appointment, as follows:
* Notably, the “except as otherwise provided in this Constitution” is referring to the section on judicial vacancies. To my knowledge, these are the two sections that cover vacancies (show me I’m wrong if I am).
Next, we have a bunch of stuff covering city, town, county, district, and State offices. We can safely skip that (skip down if you think we can’t). This brings us to:
Vacancies in all offices for the State at large, or for districts larger than a county, shall be filled by appointment of the Governor; all other appointments shall be made as may be prescribed by law.
First, “State at large” is defined in the KY Constitution (sections 69–96) and does not mean federal offices. And then it says all other appointments shall be made as may be prescribed by law.
Microanalyzing that sentence in case you think there’s room for doubt: “as may be prescribed by law” means that the law can prescribe how the appointment is made but that a law doesn’t have to exist – where “may” is opposed to “shall”. I.e. if there is no law, which there doesn’t have to be, do whatever the fuck you want, but if there is one, follow it.
The obvious reason other governors were appointing their choices is because there was no law in place to say otherwise, and “may” meant there didn’t have to be one until Republicans decided to ratfuck Beshear.
Lastly, if he’s trying to assert that “state offices” cover federal ones, I mean, good luck, I guess. That’s a dumb, ad hoc argument that’s likely to fail given there’s literally a section that differentiates between State office and Federal office.
If the governor himself™ actually sues, then fair game, and we’ll see who wins. Otherwise, dead serious: I think he’s completely misreading the law and Republicans are correct on this – not morally, of course, but legally. I invite you to read the linked section and point out where I’m wrong.
TL;DR:
- The section covers all elected offices (with judicial being the exception).
- It spends a bunch of time covering city, town, county, district, and State offices (incl. a special excerpt for “State at large”, which per the KY Constitution is not federal).
- It then says “all other offices” may be prescribed by law.
I’m going to be ballsy enough to say this: if you can read this plain English and still take Beshear’s word on it, that’s fine, but it’s strictly an argument from authority. Andy Beshear’s word is not a legal consensus that there’s ambiguity. Please, read it for yourself and try to challenge me based on what it says.
(Didn’t downvote you, btw; I appreciate you linking this.)
No better to just let someone incapable to do their job have it.
because hes bluemaga like all the parties that arent maga in america, its just a performative dance
bluemaga
.ml
🙄
Honestly at this point I think the governor should just declare Mitch to be either deceased or unable to serve and start the process of appointing a successor. Then if Mitch’s team challenges him, say look I want to be wrong please produce the Senator for an in person visit or appearance of any kind, or shut up.
Because if you strip away the politics, McConnell is there to represent the interests of his constituents. If he is unwilling or unable to do so then he should be replaced.
Yeah, there’s no excuse to not do a video conference in this day and age. Mitch could even stay in his bed, or whatever turtles sleep in.
There’s like 20 things he could do all the way from a public appearance down to simply releasing medical records. He’s doing none of them.
When evaluating such things, I look at motivation. I put myself in the other person’s shoes, and ask what set of circumstances or motivations would cause me to act as I am?
Take for example the lot of people who make outlandish claims about hover propulsion, free energy from drinking water, etc.
I put myself in those shoes, and I say ‘okay, I just built a device that turns water into power. What do I do?’
Most likely I patent the thing, build 50 of them, and send them off to research labs for evaluation. When everyone concludes my thing works, I start licensing the patents for $billions and I retire.On the other hand, let’s say I invent a water-to-power machine but it doesn’t work. What do I do? I act sketchy, try to appeal to people without much sense, try to get their money.
Which one more matches the behavior of the person advertising the free energy machine? The second one? Then I guess it’s probably bullshit.
Same deal here. If I was McConnell or his staff and I was alive and was going to return to the Senate, I’d post a video, I’d release medical records, I’d do something to reassure my constituents that I will continue to represent them.
On the other hand if I was a political director for a dead or brain-dead or almost-dead Senator, and I didn’t want the opposing Governor to appoint a successor, I’d do whatever it took to delay the world realizing that the Senator won’t be returning ever. Delay, Deny, Defend. Then once the deadline passes, we announce the Senator has ‘made an unfortunate turn for the worse’ and no longer is able to return. And our defense against fraud is someone we pay off to swear that when our brain-dead comatose Senator was asked if he’d return, his eyelids twitched twice for yes.Yeah, pretty hard to argue against that. Not sure of the details but I imagine there must be some near-term date they’re stalling to reach - no way they could keep this ruse up through the end of his term.
Like in chess.
When your opponent puts you in a bad spot, sometimes putting them in a bad position is the best way to get out of your bad position.
Force his hand.
I thought the best way to get out of a bad position is to avoid getting into one in the first place?
I mean it is, but you cant stop the GOP from doing something like this, so you gotta fight back and make them react to your move.
Imagine not showing up to your job for 43 days and even the governor is demanding that you do something, but you’re just like “nah” and nothing happens to you and you keep your job.
#nokings?
Well all you have to do is work hard enough to buy your own lawless reality. They’re living the American dream, I think?
The actual one, yeah.
And if McConnell DOESNT give an Update before August 3rd then Beshear will send ANOTHER Angry Letter!
I see you’ve dealt with democrats before.
Call for the special election anyway.
If he’s alive he’s gotta say something to stop it.
That’s what I’ve been saying: Call their bluff, by appointing a replacement, and make them sue the state to stop it. The only way to stop it is to demonstrate to the judge that the Turtle is still swimming, and if he is, then great, MAGA wins.
But if they can’t, MAGA’s got some ‘splainin’ to do.
It’s fucking infuriating that they haven’t done this. If the parties were reversed, there would be no kid gloves.
The last decade has really shown us how much of our system of government is operated on the handshake agreement not to be complete and utter piece of shit assholes to the detriment of our society, and the Republican party has made it abundantly clear they are done with that agreement.
Mitch is feeling much better lately.
Went for a hike today:
Then they visited Paris:
And stopped by Euro Disney:
Wow, generative AI is incredible these days, I thought it was the real guy.
Even the article says this is likely to not do anything. Its time for the people of Kentucky to burst into every hospital with their cameras ready. Demand they see their senator is cognizant.
This is just the bare minimum that should have been demanded weeks ago and honestly he should have just started the appointment process by now, assumed he’s in a Weekend at Bernie’s situation, played the Republican lowball game and let the political chips fall where they may.
He’s not hospitalized in Kentucky, he’s in the DC area.
Oof, I even just read that and still got dumb mad.
Yet, the Democratic governor of Kentucky continues to be a chicken-shit coward. He has the power to end this now, but he’s too much of a coward to do anything. He can simply declare the seat vacant by death or incapacitation and call for a special election. If McConnell still walks among the living, then he can show up in court to prove his health quite easily. It would be the quickest court case ever.
This is squarely on the hands of that sniveling coward Governor Beshear.
Yep, completely gutless/meaningless: “If the Senator is unable to respond for either of those or other conditions, consider this letter a demand for his Senate staff to be honest and transparent with the people of Kentucky.”
It should be a specific date and time when he’ll start the replacement process with a specific date and time when he expects the new person to be sworn in.
He can simply declare the seat vacant by death or incapacitation and call for a special election.
Can he actually?
Waaaah, but what if we caaaan’t? What if it doesn’t work? What if the courts just overrule it?
Who fucking cares if it doesn’t work? Try it anyway and quit being a god-damn child.
Let’s stop this limp-wristed, self-defeating, surrender-in-advance attitude. Here’s an idea. Try having a god damned backbone. Try it anyway and see if it sticks. As long as you have a half-decent legal theory, give it a go.
Liberals are shiftless cowards. Republicans will happily try a dozen things out, expecting only one or two of them to hold up in court. Democrats second-guess themselves into paralysis.
I love how criticize Republicans for doing certain things and then also Democrats for not doing those things.
Really makes a lot sense.
It seems lost a noun.
You said he could and I was curious if that was an official thing he could do as a part of the process.
That’s all I was asking.
The problem is that the right just does the thing five fucking times over while the left wrings their hands about how they might be perceived for even considering the thing.
It works because they think the whole pearl clutching act from the right is genuine. It never fucking is. It’s a cudgel.
I’m not sure how this can ever be fixed because the left tends to genuinely care about doing things ethically. The right knows this and uses it. There’s no way to stop it without fundamentally changing our ethics (and losing our ideology in the process).
We have to be mindful of this strategy and stop giving the benefit of the doubt to people who abuse it as a means to an end. To literally kill people for being trans, for example.
If trump has taught me anything, it’s that lawmakers can do whatever the fuck they want and let the courts sort it out later. And then maybe ignore the courts anyway.
Jump down into the shit with the pigs then. “Republicans will happily try a dozen things out, expecting only one or two of them to hold up in court.” Yeah that’s one of their worst traits, they’re fundamentally acting in bad faith all the time. That’s WHY they’re willing to do this McConnell bullshit. That’s why McConnell was willing to block Merrick Garland’s supreme court confirmation the way he did, and then do a 180 to push Trump’s nominee through. They DO. NOT. CARE. about acting in good faith.
To the extent that Democrats refrain from that kind of behavior I applaud them. You’re right a Republican Governor in this position would happily have pulled the trigger on this awhile ago because when they ask themselves “do I actually have the authority to do this thing? Can I do this thing without negative consequences?” they’re absolutely fine if only the second question can be answered with a yes.
Historically it took killing millions to defeat fascism.
You’re not even willing to be a little rude.
Sure. Whether or not its constitutional, etc. is really beside the point. Any official challenge to the governor’s declaration would necessarily involve demonstrating that McConnell is alive and well (or not). In either outcome, the question of the governor’s authority would be moot.
My issue is that we now see how these types of actions aren’t punished, and it’s becoming a race to the bottom. I’m concerned the system will collapse, and not in the way that births a system that’s better for the world.
I don’t know what the best step forward is but I suppose it would be to come out on top during the race and hope for the best.
I wouldn’t like to be the guy that claimed mitch mcconnell was dead and then having to recuse myself because he comes to the court.
And I would get laughed at in the internet
Oh no better do nothing instead of risking being embarrassed then
Can you really be a DNC ghoul if you aren’t prepared to preserve decorum at the cost of everything else?
Why would you have to recuse yourself. Just say glad to see you’re alive Mitch and cancel the election.
Kentucky Gov sends sternly worded letter.
While the language in Beshear’s letter is strong, it likely won’t do anything. McConnell, like every member of Congress, can essentially go on paid medical leave for as long as he wants. The fact that our elected officials don’t really have to prove that they can walk, talk, and think coherently—while we still pay them—is disgraceful. Maybe Beshear should just pay McConnell a visit himself, and bring a camera crew with him.
The blue collar worker should try this approach. Oh, right. We wouldn’t have a job in a few days.
So we’re calling mildly worded letters an order now? He’s doing the same bullshit everyone else does. Every week that gets added to this he writes another letter. MF the deadline for the election is next week.
For context Senator Ben Lujan from New Mexico got BRAIN SURGERY after a STROKE. He returned to work after a little over a month. He took less time off than McConnell has had for what is allegedly only a minor case of Pneumonia.
Why does Trump get carté blanché but when it’s anyone else they just throw their hands in the air. Beshear needs to just hold the special election. Watch how fast they provide information.
Props to Senator Lujan. One month after any surgery is intense, let alone brain surgery.
Hello everyone it’s me Mitch. Im doing well. Thanks for all th
If he didn’t lockup at the end I might not have believed it.
thanks for the update we were worried about you be safe see you soon
Oh, man. He must have git got by Candlejack. I hate it when tha
Or else what?
He has instructed the liberal establishment to prepare their strongest worded letters.
He has instructed the liberal establishment to prepare their strongest worded letters.
McConnell doing what he’s best at: stalling
He’s passed on! This senator is no more! He has ceased to be! He’s expired and gone to meet his maker! He’s a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! If they hadn’t nailed him to the hospital bed he’d be pushing up the daisies! His metabolic processes are now history! He’s off the twig! He’s kicked the bucket, he’s shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible!! HE IS AN EX-SENATOR!!
Nope! Chuck Testa.
His soul has left, but his shite remains
