Big Ted. What a nice nickname for someone who I’m sure was a nice young man.
His MKULTRA handler gave it to him
“Hey Big Ted how’s your brain feeling”
“Good enough to mostly make sense” Industrial Society and its Future
I don’t know… I’ve always found Kaczinsky an interesting guy, but now that I’m around halfway through his book, I find his arguements surprisingly weak as in he doesn’t really put a lot of effort into justifying the basics. He just goes on to say “yeah obfuscating the process of survival is bad” and sure I can see how some people might find hunting rabbits with bows more fulfilling than looking at Excel all day but if you don’t accept that immediately then his arguements become pretty weak.
I use Excel to calculate the ages of the oldest rocks in the Solar System. If I was using it to find accounting loopholes for a private equity firm, I’d probably kill myself.
Ted’s problem is that he equates the tools and the processes of post-industrial society with its people. Just because the possibility exists for these surrogate activities to replace meaningful work doesn’t mean we all succumb automatically.
Ted’s problem was that he murdered people.
Ted’s problem was that he murdered the wrong people. Let’s be completely honest if he was killing politicians and their corporate masters he would be a hell of a lot less controversial. So long as fascists, authoritarians, and their weak willed followers exist there is few excuses to kill the innocent, collateral not withstanding if someone took out a small town to kill Musk it’d be acceptable for example.
I’m a Gandhi and King fan so I wholeheartedly disagree.
As a John Brown fan and follower of the Allfather I wholeheartedly disagree with you. Sometimes the most just action one can take is the most brutal and destructive one, really it comes down to what one’s own mental liberty allows them to do.
John Brown failed. He would have succeeded if he were Gandhi before Gandhi. Plus he would have prevented the bloody Civil War.
John Brown failed in his original intentions of creating a new country in the Appalachians and triggering a slave revolt. He more than succeeded in becoming a martyr for the abolitionist cause and giving something to rally behind. Also the civil war was inevitable by the time John Brown did his raid on Harpers Ferry, he was simply the Prologue not the cause, even if Brown was a Ghandi like figure there would’ve still be a civil war since the South was not going to give up the institution of slavery without a fight.
“Equating the tools and processes with the people” is such a good way of putting it that I gotta remember to remember it.
I’m impressed you made it half way, the man was not a natural writer by any means.
Industrial revolution stands on the shoulders of a giant called the agricultural revolution.
I brake for hunter gatherers.
Yeah, I see the industrial revolution as an inevitable consequence of the agricultural revolution.
Which is to say:
The agricultural revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.Why is it that everyone says this? Praytell.
We all read Ishmael (Quinn, 1992)
That’s the talking monkey one, right?
Bro I’m pretty sure it’s a gorilla my friend
In the beginning the Universe was created. This had made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
froopy dude coming though
Fuck Kaczynski, read Bookchin.
I agree
Why are people supporting this insane view is so strange to me. The results of no industrial revolution would be a lack of medicine and widespread famine, on a scale no place on earth has ever seen.
If you care about the health of disabled people, if you care about minorities, if you care about workers, then this view is untenable. Its one step shy of full on fascism, “final solution” style. I have more sympathy for absolute misanthropy than this; at least it’s honest.
Kaczynski was a quintessential reactionary ecofascist, no additional qualifier required. But a lot of people have their first encounter with radical social critique in his writings, so absent any further critical theory his direct acts are often categorized as romantic rebellion, rather than the grossly misdirected randomized murders that they were.
It’s quite the coincidence that as soon as there was a charismatic (In a way) Harvard grad with a CIA mind-control experiment in his past writing wheat pasted manifestos about technology as the root of all evil while he blew up civilian science researchers, NYTimes - The supposed dignified record of the political center - Was willing to post that shit in full page spread, unsolicited. They didn’t do anything of the sort for a certain charismatic alleged green mario, when he identified social class as the blame. It’s almost as if social hierarchy wants to skirt blame for it’s externalities and instead misdirect it onto scapegoats.
Slight correction, I believe the NYTimes printed Industrial Society and Its Future because Kaczynski told them he’d stop mailing bombs if they did. The FBI and Janet Reno (AG at the time) both pushed for it and its publication directly led to his brother recognizing the writing as Ted’s and his subsequent capture.
the industrial revolution could have been done without capitalism actively choosing to destroy so many lives in the name of profit…
This is squarely to blame on capitalism.
most everything is.
Kaczynski was the proto Incel-Shooter.
Had his head way up his own ass, really weird thoughts on women and all this was somehow the fault of everybody else. Him getting glazed as somehow good or admirable leaves a real foul taste in my mouth every time.It’s what the lack of historical materialism does to a mfer.
A desire to return to the norm of humanity for the last 15,000 years does not seem immediately similar to fascism. In fact, your immediate violent dismissal of it is concerning.
Those 15000 years were violent; death, disease and persecution were constant and everywhere. Oh and that return would reduce the population by at least ~80%. Anyone suggesting it would be good necessarily implicitly supports a global genocide.
Who do you think would suffer as a result, besides minorities and disabled people?
Well unfortunately, a global population crash is already in the cards whether you want it to or not. Not that I do want it to. I just think that it would have been better to have never had the population boom and now crash that the industrial revolution precipitated. I’m not saying I want to undo it, because as you said, it would kill people. I’m saying it would have been better for those people to have never existed at all.
More on OPs topic, the industrial revolution HAS been a disaster for humans and the planet. Look at the world. We have destroyed the ecosystems the world over. In 20 years, everyone alive will see very clearly what the suffering you described as happening in the middle ages was like. But now we have 8 billion people to enjoy it. Progress.
Learning to walk upright and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
(ভ⤙ ভ ")<
Our poor spines.
This is totally my mood today
We are undeniably better off because of the industrial revolution. It’s caused problems but those are well worth it for the benefit.
Right now*
We’ve almost caused, and now will forever have the capacity to cause, a mass extinction event with nuclear bombs. If the cold war had turned hot we probably wouldn’t be saying the industrial revolution was “worth it”.
There’s also the more slow motion extinction event in the form of climate change.
But yes for those living in the west from 1950 ~ 2150 it’s a good deal
To quote Zhou Enlai when asked in 1968 about the impacts of the French revolution “it’s too early to say”
We are currently experiencing a mass extinction event on a similar scale but greater speed than the Permian mass extinction.
CURRENTLY. It is getting worse.
Only if you’re basing your assertion on inherently biased criteria. For many in the west it’s better sure, but what about the majority of people in impoverished countries, or less fortunate people in general? How about non-human species that have been losing their natural habitats to pollution and global warming inch by inch, or just human interference in general? Or even species that have been outright driven to extinction by human activity?
I’m not so sure any of that is worth it for a new smart phone every year with only marginally better features. And I hear the new hyped-up technology is pretty much the epitome of an infinite amount of monkeys on typewriters desperate to type up Shakespeare.
Yes humans suck. There was much more of this before the industrial revolution.
Again, that’s only from your (biased) viewpoint. I’m sure you or I can say that with relatively little consideration from our cushy positions in wealthy countries, but try and get, say, the average Sudanese citizen to agree with that. It’s really not gonna work.
Plus to agree with your sentiment is to say that capitalism is worth the suffering it causes. I’m gonna have to disagree with that on principle.
Are you sure? There are an order of magnitude more people around now. And most are still not doing great. So now we have a massive explosion in the net amount of suffering in order to boost the joy of a few people by a few bits.
What the fuck do you think life was like in the middle ages?
Hard? But I tell you what, no subscriptions.
Of course these people benefited too. Why do you demography in Asia/Africa boomed over the last century?
Socialism has been the death of more people mainly because of Capitalist sanctions/meddling to make it fail.
would the children working in sweat shops in … rolls dice … the US agree with this?
Wait till you hear about slave labor conditions
which was (the american , british, “modern era” version) …done under capitalism.
“Just a sec”
puts on gigantic goose costume
That’s a vibe
I kinda miss Pontiac. For my entire lifetime, they were “What if GM products were just a little more ridiculous?”
The Trans Am is a Z-28 with mutton chops. Prove me wrong.
Untitled Goose Car.
Fun fact: You wouldn’t be driving behind them or honking your horn if it wasn’t for the industrial revolution.
The more you know…
You wouldn’t be driving […]
God that’d have been nice. I rarely drive my car but even that’s too much for me. “Hi, yes I would love to sit still staring at another car’s bumper for long periods of time where not focusing entirely could kill myself and others. I LOVE being required by urban planning to do that and LOVE being required to spend tens of thousands on maintaining the luxury of it”
Bicycle better 🚲
I still maintain that the humble bicycle is one of humanities greatest inventions. Cheap to build, can be maintained with spit and love, the most efficient mode of transport, and fun to top it off
I’d say the bicycle easily makes the top 10 of all-time best inventions of humanity.
Ah, a man of class I see 👍
I as well (used to) partake in BMX flatland. I still would if I hadn’t eventually wore my bike out beyond safety.
Yes, this is me, from 2012…
Hell yeah! That’s so rad. Best I could do is sit on the handlebars and pedal around backwards (I stole the gif from the internet)
100%! I got mine fixed up again recently since I’m in office after many years and it’s been great
The bicycle cured my diabetes
I fortunately am not dependent on cars for my daily transportation. I’ve barely driven in my life, don’t even have a licence, but I love road trips and driving in simulations.
But not moving at all, or relatively to dense traffic is not what I like about that, driving as mass transportation sucks.
Prove it fact man
HONK!
I don’t even own this vehicle LOL!
This bumper sticker is just an edgier version of the “I bought this before Elon went crazy” one.
Maybe I’m givin’ 'en too much credit, but that seems like the joke
I read his writing for the first time recently. It certainly sticks with you. He was certainly no dummy. I still take issue with some of his stances. Big of me, I know.
I was about to say, you nod along with Ted until he starts into the racist bits.
Also his entire argument, which is pretty well-structured, completely hinges on certain things he just takes for granted. Namely, that the number of people that would be harmed by his approach might be far greater than continuing on this current path. I don’t know whether he’s right or wrong about that, but it’s PRETTY CRUCIAL, and I feel there’s tons of room for nuance. He, in his frustration, seemingly reduced the potential deaths of tens of millions (if not more) to, “Eh. Fuck it, it’s probably better,” best I can tell. He offers plenty of diagnoses, but no real remedies or cures.
I would argue that the Agricultural Revolution was the turning point that set humanity on its current path, for better and worse.
To be fair, life before agriculture was often harsh, but many of the problems that define civilization today, such as large-scale warfare, rigid social hierarchies, widespread inequality, organized slavery, and systemic exploitation, became possible only after humans settled down and began producing agricultural surpluses.
Regardless of what is happening in the world right now, we are living in one of the most peaceful and prosperous periods in human history. Aside from the anti-vaccination movement, which is a travesty for humanity, we have the best medicine, the highest life expectancy, and the lowest infant mortality rates in history.
That said, I suspect humans are better adapted to living in small migratory bands of hunters and gatherers than in large, sedentary urban societies. Civilization has given us extraordinary technology and material comfort, but it may have come at the cost of the social structures, physical activity, and close-knit communities that humans evolved to thrive in.
Ever read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn?
No. But that is the name of the narrator in Moby Dick.
That’s correct …
Interesting book. I hate paying taxes. But don’t hate being human. You win some, you lose some.
Ironic that someone put this on vehicle powered by gasoline but I suppose that’s the crux of the issue; we can just ignore the consequences of our actions as long is doesn’t immediately effect us. In this case they’re part of the cohort of people that drive to work everyday and indirectly cause the deaths of hundreds of millions of poor people on the other side of the world that they inherently don’t give shit about. Mostly in Africa and India, who gives a fuck about them right?
getting older is realizing the Unabomber may have had a point…
No he did not he was a weird transphobic tweak w no sense of how the world actualy works
MAY have had a point.
We can always learn from him tho he did more than the avarage person :)
right, just because he missed the nail, that’s not to say he was trying to hammer the wrong one. I think the saying goes: “He’s got the spirit, he’s just a bit confused.”
I made an attempt to read that guy’s book once. Holy hell the man is a nutter, and not a writer by any means.
I made it a quarter of the way through, if that. Absolute waffle.
Yum! 😋 Waffles!
