The lack of empathy is stunning

Jesus Christ

Sounds like a fun weekend with my girlfriends

Wow thats crazy they changed the address for the venue to exactly where I live whoa what a wild world

(Jokes aside have fun! You look great!)

Tbf I’d prefer that to stroking someone when I tried to shove them. Stroking them just isn’t in the realm of possible outcomes when an experienced combatant tries to shove someone.

Anthropic is a different company to openai - its closer to the beginning of your example, and then someone else recalling the time they shot some bullets and they went back and checked for bodies and found 3

That hook from the Shania Twain song makes more and more sense every day.

“Man, I feel like a woman!” I’ll scream it from the rooftops

Ayo you’re pulling off tomboys? I got some people who’d like to meet

You directly accused me of internalised transphobia. I mentioned that internalized transphobia may be a factor in some people’s attachment to the concept. Disengage.

Ew. I have nothing more to say to you if you’re gonna start asserting things about me. Disengaging from this conversation and I hope you will too.

Fuck no

Again, it isn’t a mistake - I am criticising the label not because it is imperfect, but because it is not a meaningful label. I would appreciate if you would consider the fact that I heard you the first time and disagree for a reason, not out of ignorance.

I understand where you’re coming from with behaviour and mannerism adjustment - I had not (until yourself) seen these aspects held under the nebulous umbrella of “male socialization”, at least not when it comes to the kinds of things that binary trans women would be looking to change in an effort to be perceived as feminine. Perhaps this is the correct term for that, but I’m not convinced

As a binary trans woman who is intentionally performing gender in a mostly traditional way, I wouldn’t begin to gatekeep trans identities or invalidate the experiences of binary trans people. For all the conversation about behaviour and mannerism adjustment, I would have instead been using the terms “femininity” and “masculinity”, or “traditional X gender presentation”, especially given the widespread adoption of the term “male socialization” as a piece of transphobic rhetoric. I believe the aforementioned two terms to be more well defined, generally applicable, and less prone to centering the conversation on a gender they do not identify with.

If it is useful to you to use this term in this way, more power to you. I shouldn’t, can’t, and won’t prevent you from doing so.

Important to consider is that many transgender people have big time internalized transphobia. I struggled with it a lot. You (might) go through years, decades, of denying who you are to yourself, hating the aspects of yourself that dont conform to the general idea of the gender you were assigned at birth, and that doesn’t just disappear when you realise and start transitioning.

I’m not saying every trans person in this thread who describes themselves as “male socialized” is doing so because of internalised transphobia, I’m just suggesting it is worth bearing in mind.

I’m glad I could provide some valuable thought food for you!

We are, of course, influenced by our upbringing, but I do think that gesturing at this nebulous, oversimplified concept of “male socialisation” is not constructive.

I’m not making a mistake - I am directly stating that this term does not do a good job at capturing a group in a useful way.

There is ample feminist literature for decades debunking how “male socialization” is used today.

More current, is the concept viewed from intersectional feminism, which criticises the fact that flattening down “male socialization” in this way does a disservice by excluding other, perhaps more prominent social and circumstantial factors which all contribute together, such as race, class, disability, sexuality, nationality, etc.

A more nuanced discussion is necessary, in my opinion, and I dont think I have ever seen “male socialization” used in a constructive context. I most prominently see it used to invalidate (trans) women’s genders, hand-wave away poor behaviour, etc.

I think its important to draw a line.

“Male socialisation” implies that everyone who was AMAB went through the same kind of upbringing and was exposed to the same kinds of indoctrination, toxicity, and bias. It is an over generalisation at best, and intentionally misrepresentative at worst.

If you want to talk specifically about what being assigned male at birth did to your upbringing, I can see it being useful to have a generally understood terminology for that. But you aren’t talking about something that is necessarily applicable as a broad term like “male socialisation”.

I was raised by people who thought I was a male, and part of that bombarded me with machismo and objectification of women. Traditional masculine values were, or at least there was an attempt to, pasted onto me. But many of them slid right off because even if I didnt acknowledge it until a decade or more later, I was a woman, and these values did not align with me. Some stuck, and took learning and introspection to undo.

I am still undoing some of that and I’m sure theres more that I’m unaware of that I will be undoing for years. But my experience differed so greatly from one whose identity aligns with their assigned gender at birth, because the core assumption at the root of what those around me were trying to impart upon me, was wrong. I was not a man. I have never been a man.

I can plant a seed and a plastic bead in the same soil, give them the same fertiliser, water them the same, and only the seed will grow into a plant. The bead might be wet, or dirty, just like the seed, but to expect that it would have experienced the same resulting changes as the seed would be unwise.

“Male socialization” paints transgender women as invariably unable to escape the chains of their assigned gender at birth. Let us rather discuss, on an individual basis, the toxicity and unhelpful values that were or were not taught by those we trusted.

Oh boy I sure hope gw1 isn’t old enough to drink in the united sta-

April 8th 2005

Its more commonly a dogwhistle than it is an innocuous statement - but the point of dogwhistles is that you don’t notice them unless you are aware of them

If:

• there was not a fash behind the project
• I could feel relatively sure it would be safe
• I’d have community up there in the form of other queer folks
• I could pause my job

Then fuck yes

Wait wait what’s the tea about fren