Los foros de internet están desapareciendo porque ahora todo es Reddit y Discord. Y eso es preocupante
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Hubo un tiempo en que los foros de discusión eran nuestras redes sociales. Los usuarios visitaban aquellos que se ajustaban a cierta temática y eso les...
  • CaptainPedantic@lemmy.worldEnglish
    418·
    2 年前

    Reddit does shitty stuff, but at least I’m able to find stuff on there. Why Discord took off as a medium to replace forums is beyond me. It’s not easily searchable, and search engines can’t index it. If people aren’t fastidious about replying to messages they’re responding to, it’s just a nonsense stream of consciousness from dozens of people.

    That being said, I hate the formatting of most forums. Reddit and Lemmy’s comment nesting is excellent. It’s very easy to follow conversations.

    • DJDarren@thelemmy.clubEnglish
      115·
      2 年前

      I use Opencore Legacy Patcher to run unsupported macOS on my older Macs. They used to have an excellent Reddit group that was easily searchable and rammed full of really good advice on how to fix common issues.

      A couple of years ago they shuttered the group and moved everything over to Discord, and it’s been hell ever since trying to figure out how to fix something if it goes wrong.

      You search for your issue, find someone talking about it, then have to pick through the dozens of replies either side to try and figure out if there’s anything useful. There are dedicated support threads now, but hardly anyone uses them, so they’re not helpful.

      I really, really hate Discord as a support medium, and can’t for the life of me work out why the OCLP mods chose it over Reddit.

      • axsyse@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
        17·
        2 年前

        I’ve used OCLP, and I didn’t even realize they largely switched to Discord. That explains why finding some info was such a PITA when I was playing around with it.

        I will never understand why people choose to use Discord as a forum replacement. It’s just such an awful platform for that.

      • DJDarren@thelemmy.clubEnglish
        5·
        2 年前

        Oh, and to add something that’s just occurred to me…

        If you had a problem and couldn’t find a solution while the support was on Reddit, you could easily start a new thread that might bring you the help you needed. Now, with Discord, you have to hope that someone who knows how to help just happens to be browsing the feed at that moment, otherwise your post is getting lost in the ether, because who the fuck is searching for problems in order to offer assistance?

    • Tippon@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      521·
      2 年前

      That being said, I hate the formatting of most forums. Reddit and Lemmy’s comment nesting is excellent. It’s very easy to follow conversations.

      You could set that up on a lot of forums, you just had to select threaded view in the settings 👍

    • mox@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
      36·
      2 年前

      I hate the formatting of most forums. Reddit and Lemmy’s comment nesting is excellent.

      The funny thing about this is that it’s just plain old threading, which has been around since the 1980s or earlier, with the slight variation of showing message contents directly in the thread tree instead of beside it (thanks to today’s high-res displays).

      Usenet readers did threading. Email apps could do it if the developers wanted to; the required information is there. I’ll bet there’s forum software that can do it if an admin enables it.

      For some reason, most corporations seem to have decided that classic message threading has no place in their interfaces. They resort to piling things into stacks or serializing them into seemingly endless scrolls. It fails to represent the structure of group discussions, and sadly, has been going on for so long that many people might not have ever seen the better alternative outside of reddit.

      • The_v@lemmy.worldEnglish
        10·
        2 年前

        Forums were awesome until the ads took over. Then apps like Tapatalk made reading them easier. Then Tapatalk went to shit and power users migrated to reddit (mainly for the easy to use wepage and awesome independent apps.).

        Then reddit shit the bed so now Lemmy is filling the gaps.

    • BarbecueCowboy@lemmy.worldEnglish
      14·
      2 年前

      The transience and non-indexability is a feature, it’s easier to manage a community if any problem can be solved by just ignoring it for a few days. Just have to hope the issue stays within Discord, sure you could search within discord, but no one is going to and on any large discord the results are likely to be so numerous that it’s worthless. Worst case you lock down a chat channel, mark it as private due to ‘spam’ and create a new one to serve the same purpose as the old to cover it up the rest of the way.

    • GreatAlbatross@feddit.ukEnglish
      5·
      2 年前

      Why Discord took off as a medium to replace forums is beyond me

      My theory is that it was used as the primary form of informal communication by groups doing something, then it felt like a community.
      And since everyone was there…Why not put the documentation there? Sure, it’s not indexable, but the group is open-sign-up, right? Right?

      Then a few years down the line, someone suggests switching to another primary storage location…Then faces huge amounts of push-back from people comfy sitting on discord.

    • Graphy@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      2 年前

      The worst is when you’re trying to look for something but one of the discord bots has said a word similar ten billion times so that’s all that comes up. You’ll try to ban the bot to see other comments but then you just get like blank space or some shit where the bots comments would be

    • overflowingmemory@links.hackliberty.orgEnglish
      1·
      2 年前

      Related Meme: Me and the person who had the same problem 14 years ago (Meme Image: Knight 🛡️ sits next to a skeleton 💀)

      With the mass adaption of discord these kind of “nice search engine finds 🔍” will become rare again.

      And I heard that reddit also has a special search engine deal with google while blocking others?

  • RubberDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
    221·
    2 年前

    I don’t understand why discord is so popular for communities. There is 0 permanence, and google does not index it so not even organic growth.

    Discord is a black hole of knowledge except for the ai training companies.

    • SorteKanin@feddit.dkEnglish
      33·
      2 年前

      Unless that “one place” is an open, federated standard that allows anyone to participate with their own self-hosted server - i.e. “one place” = the fediverse, then it’s fine!

    • _number8_@lemmy.worldEnglish
      81·
      2 年前

      it seemed truly cozy and community-based for the first decade or so. you could buy gold to directly pay for servers and that was it, no greedy monetization or shittification. then awards came out with the same transparency, and it was fun to reward people for good posts (i gave gold partially to bookmark excellent comments for myself, as well). then spez got into coke (probably, i dunno, or hit his head very hard on something) and we have modern day reddit, a trash heap. i like how they deleted all the old awards and gold records, pure spit in the face to anyone that still believed in anything they were doing.

  • The Picard Maneuver@lemmy.worldEnglish
    741·
    2 年前

    There was a story recently about a depressing number of web domains disappearing. Everybody just gravitates to the big corporate sites now, and it makes the internet ecosystem boring and less diverse.

    It’s the equivalent of Walmarts running every mom & pop store out of town.

  • Peddlephile@lemm.eeEnglish
    70·
    2 年前

    Welcome to the new era of enshittification where you’ll eventually have to subscribe to access or make posts, and none of it will be searchable on any search engines.

  • dhork@lemmy.worldEnglish
    56·
    2 年前

    I’m particularly concerned about companies who have effectively outsourced their tech support to Social Media.

    I am a Google Fi subscriber, and their customer support is so abysmal that a Google employee started up a “Reddit Request” system for Redditors to use to escalate support requests.

    When I quit Reddit in a huff over the APIcalypse, the main thing that led me to not delete my account was the notion that if I ever had issues with Fi, and didn’t have an active Reddit account with sufficient karma to be believed, my issue may never get enough attention to be fixed.

    • DJDarren@thelemmy.clubEnglish
      14·
      2 年前

      Like many others who no longer use Twitter or Facebook, one of the biggest impacts to me is suddenly not having a reasonably proactive way to contact companies for support. It’s amazing how many companies have offloaded their support staff to half a dozen overworked social media operators. Try phoning and you’ll get “busier than usual” phone lines, and if you can even find an email address it’ll auto-reply to say that it’s no longer monitored.

      It’s a shit show.

      • stealth_cookies@lemmy.caEnglish
        6·
        2 年前

        Seriously, I had an issue with Uber awhile ago and their support was completely unhelpful until I contacted them on Twitter and an employee finally looked at my issue and confirmed I was right instead of giving me bullshit answers.

        This is literally the only reason I haven’t deleted my account there is for situations like that.

    • Aeri@lemmy.worldEnglish
      151·
      2 年前

      I got banned for something really stupid and they denied my appeal so now I’m kinda just fucked for a lot of stuff, that is too much power for one site to have.

      FWIW All I said was “I should be allowed to punch nazis” and I’ve seen way worse things than that said and not actioned on by reddit. (Even when reported)

      There are entire communities that “glorify violence” that they do nothing about.

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldEnglish
    55·
    2 年前

    My favorite forum is still chugging along!

    https://forums.mst3k.com/

    If you’re a fan, you’re most welcome.

    If you’re not a fan, you’re still welcome, but you probably won’t get a lot of our references.

    If you’re a dickweed- well, you probably won’t last any longer than Tom Servo did as an Observer.

    • EarMaster@lemmy.worldEnglish
      44·
      2 年前

      Discourse exists and is free to self-host and open source. Compared to classic forum software (like most *bb variants) it is a pleasure to use and feels not like a remnant of a lost age.

      The (only?) downside is the similar name to Discord, but that’s not them to blame, because they had their name first.

    • mlg@lemmy.worldEnglish
      204·
      2 年前

      Because the vote system inherently supports popularity which creates content masking issues and usually results in communities with mods that want to keep that system.

      Stack overflow has this exact same issue where stupid crap gets upvoted and useful stuff gets nuked so users don’t see things that would otherwise be important or useful.

      Lemmy somewhat avoids it due to the relatively low number of posts, but that could easily change.

  • TheObviousSolution@lemm.eeEnglish
    507·
    2 年前

    I wouldn’t mind Reddit if it weren’t for the opaque and hidden moderation. Tree nested communication is much more superior than traditional thread based communication. We need that in truly federated fashion, and lemmy was just a step there whose questionable leadership hampers any real wide-scale adoption.

    Lemmy does slightly better, but essentially proves that when you have shitty administrators and moderators, the only thing that’s going to be transparent is the quickest and easiest excuse, and when it’s a lie it remains it remains incontestable. You only need to look at threads titled “Lemmy.ml tankie censorship problem” and read the comments to get a sense of the scale of the problem. Discord, at least it’s much more obvious that you are joining closed off communities and that discussions are essentially time limited.

    Things like community wikis have also dropped off in use specially recently because it’s becoming clear how much of their content is intent on milking their users. First it was ads, and it was excused because “hosting costs” (regardless of how comparable they were), now it’s AI scavenging your content and those services actively preventing you from eliminating content you contributed but are no longer willing to let them host.

    Even in Lemmy, where’s the option for me to remove my comments when I no longer want them to be hosted? In Lemmy, due to its federated nature, it’s even more difficult, but given that you can edit comments and have those updates propagated, not impossible. But nothing beats reddit in abuse, where they shamelessly tried to say they would allow respect and allow users to monetize their content but instead proceeded to do the complete opposite. The fact that there might/will be some other cache on the Internet that stores the content does not excuse it and give people the right to pressure and dismiss chain of ownership of those contributions.

    Add to this that the economy is far worse and that the tech boom is shrinking and much more competition driven along with a general decline in society for respectful contributions and discourse, and you get a lot less of the sort of charity that was involved in older communities.

  • Sir Arthur V Quackington@lemmy.worldEnglish
    468·
    2 年前

    I advocate for two things, oddly things I never would have in earlier internet:

    • Paid forums. A one time payment for registration.

    • Strict rules and quick bans. But allow offenders to buy back in. Permaban for serious offenses. .

    Why? Because if it costs you $10 or 15 to re-activate after screwing around, you’re much more likely to read the room and not fuck around too much with others. It encourages users to point out bad behavior, and mods to act decisively. If the mods or management totally suck, then it can go sour, but that’s true of any community.

    In this case though it can at least partially help to offset costs from shitty users, and keep bots at bay by making them cost a registration fee.

    I don’t love it as a “solution”, but when Facebook was small, people behaved better. But now people post the most unhinged shit ever under their full legal name, so no amount of daylight is going to put the proverbial trolls back in their cages. Just gotta lock them out of civil spaces.

    You wanna talk about Honda engine tuning here with us? Don’t be a fucking asshole, or get banned.

    You wanna chat with fans of 50s cinema and the rise of modern camera film technique? Do it without brining up woke/trump/biden/Covid or get out.

    I like that we have free stuff like lemmy and reddit for now, but bots are getting far, far worse.

      • Sir Arthur V Quackington@lemmy.worldEnglish
        5·
        2 年前

        Honestly to avoid the immense botspam coming for small orgs, you need either a literal army of volunteers, or some kind of “realID” type check to verify they’re human, and I hate that concept immensely as well.

        Giant if, but if you could do a one way cryptographic check against an ID to verify its legitimate, without sending anything off the server elsewhere, then a forum could bind your current username to a state issued ID, at least until it’s reissued. And then you could at least reasonably think these users are human.

        But who wants to give that info to a stranger online. Even if the hash is unique to the site based on their own seed, the average person doesn’t understand that, and it feels like handing over your actual privacy.

        Setting aside that PCs don’t have NFC readers as a standard feature as well.

        Everything I think would be effectivd boils down though to needing to know that something exists in meatspace on the other end, and being able to use that to manage your bans. At least 10bux is just money, and not your ID.

        • GreatAlbatross@feddit.ukEnglish
          6·
          2 年前

          This is the thing, the balance of anonymity and preventing people using that anonymity to be a tit.
          In my opinion, one of the answers is keeping the signal-to-noise high: Make sure that there are enough sensible people in a community that if someone starts acting up, they’re alone. And then they can either correct their course, or get banned, ideally before the next moron shows up.

          And part of the way of achieving that is raising the barrier to sign-up, if only a little, and rate limiting.

          • Sir Arthur V Quackington@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            2 年前

            Revisiting this many weeks later: what do you think of the idea of super users who can be delegated an ability to silence/quarantine other posters?

            Admin

            Moderators

            Superuser

            User

            Maybe if they only had the ability to flag a user and put them in "time out, and it couldn’t stack or be consecutive from one superuser, etc?

            I dunno. It might be a good way to help police the content without making people volunteer to be full on mods. And it can be treated as a semi privileged role, that expires are X months and only X number ofnactive users in good standing can have at once?

            A little complex to implement, but it might at least let mods crowdsource the task of stemming the worst of things.

    • EngineerGaming@feddit.nlEnglish
      73·
      2 年前

      If there is payment, better support crypto too, because this way you wouldn’t force people to KYC themselves, as well as wouldn’t exclude people from sanctioned regions.

      • Sir Arthur V Quackington@lemmy.worldEnglish
        89·
        2 年前

        Nope. Imo the point is to avoid cryptobro bots and the like, not invite them.

        Plus crypto is volatile and you’d have to manage it a lot more to keep it pegged at “expensive enough”

        And even then, you won’t discourage a troll who just happens to have an absurd stash of coins without pricing out legitimate users. A bot farmer with 50k in bitcoin would drop a few hundredths of a coin just to make your day worse.

        • EngineerGaming@feddit.nlEnglish
          172·
          2 年前

          “Cryptobros” =/= “people using crypto”, because this is a legitimate usecase. You can see it discussed on Lemmy too. This is how I can pay for my VPS while my card doesn’t work. This is how I would pay for a service even if my card did work, but I didn’t want to attach pretty much my real name to it. But yea, I agree that it might be complicated logistically. Have seen services where you can buy prepaid cards for crypto - at least that should work.

        • Hammerheart@programming.devEnglish
          1·
          2 年前

          Plus crypto is volatile and you’d have to manage it a lot more to keep it pegged at “expensive enough”

          this is a solved problem. Just change the crypto cost according to its exchange value. I pay for my vpn and my vps with crypto.

          • Sir Arthur V Quackington@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            2 年前

            True, but my thinking would be that I wouldn’t want to promote total anonymity when the whole thrust of what I was saying was to attach cost, burden, and some kind of identity if possible.

            Pay me ten bucks from PayPal.

            I don’t care about your PayPal info but I at least know you’re “real” enough to pass basic PayPal setup screening nowadays. That kind of thing.

    • Digitalprimate@lemmy.worldEnglish
      51·
      2 年前

      Well you have just described Metafilter. I’m a liberal a lefty as can be, and eventually even I got tired of the drama and obvious virtue signaling. And at the end of the day, drama and less-than-appropriate virtue signaling were what the mods wanted.

      • Sir Arthur V Quackington@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        2 年前

        Communities can eventually become insular and crappy, that isn’t anything new. I haven’t ever used/heard of metafilter , but I believe you.

        Not a problem unique to lefties or hardcore MAGA folks. It’s just community management for free by volunteers eventually means you have some echo chambering. The site/community manager can steer the mod policies, but without leadership you get fiefdoms. Look at some subreddits that speed run this process.

        • Digitalprimate@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          2 年前

          Haven’t been there in a decade despite having been there for a decade and helping many real people in real life from there, and I’d have to say: depends on who the target of the violence is and whether or not it’s phased in the subjunctive mood.

    • overflowingmemory@links.hackliberty.orgEnglish
      1·
      2 年前

      Hate that aspect of social networks as well. Someone has to moderate manually in the end, once a community is not finely curated. Since that is not pleasant experience.

      Thats why I Love the idea that users have to show some merit before allowed to join a community. But that kind of system does not scale well. And social networks usefulness is all about scale. There are contradicting forces at play here.