I'm distracted by work (yes, the stuff I get paid to do) and the other petty details of my insignificant corporate existence today, so I won't be posting much, if at all. But I've been meaning to add more open threads to the mix, to keep the conversation going at times like these. So here's one.
Reagan Republicanism as a cult? I can go with this. Though I don't know if DeLay would like to be compared to a witch doctor.
OK, here's a question/debate topic: Who thinks Tenet's quick resignation had more to do with the CIA's role in the Plame investigation (and the recent lawyering-up of Bush & Cheney) than the upcoming congressional reports?
Talk amongst yourselves...
Legion, I dunno either way. On Reaganification-barf, I like to think all the nostalgia is a partial barometer over how unsatisfied Republicans are with Shrub. They're not going to come right out and say it .. That's my fantasy anyway, please don't destroy it.
Josh Marshall lays out some of the stark choices facing the electorate this fall. It'll be nice to have the pros back in a Kerry administration.
This is maddening. It's like being trapped in a huge volume of Trollope in which pages from all his political novels have been rebound at random and non-sequentially, and it will take years of reading to figure out who did what and when. Maybe by 2050 many will know precisely the interconnections between Plame, Cheney, Chalabi, Tenet, Taguba, Neil Bush, Judy Miller, Feith, Perle, Musharraf, Barney and all the rest. Will we know? I doubt it.
legion -- someone on Slate (quoted in fraywatch) proposed the theory that Tenet had been been flipped and was "wearing the wire" in order to implicate the higher-ups. once the needed info was obtained, he was allowed to resign.
another juicy theory (source? here?) was that Tenet just found out that Bush knew the identity of the Plame leaker, and when Bush refused to punish that person, Tenet finally had enough and resigned on principle. This ties neatly with Bush "lawyering up".
yes, we're all eating at the schadenfreude buffet now, and more dishes are being added by the day...
Misses Mary Gartners expertise will be used by the attorneys of Gartner, English and the other Abu Ghraib tortures. I wonder what the judges will rule on DoDs leagal opinion.
I thought this was a BYOB party! (burp).
And another thing that bothered me ... A GOP talking head mentioned last night that the 'GOP and indeed the entire country is in shock over Reagan's death'.
Shock? Mourning perhaps for some...But shock when a 93 year old man, who has suffered from Alzheimers for ten years, passes away? This was shocking?
...and she had just picked out a new pair of smart pumps too...
The Third Division of the Sandiganbayan denied on Tuesday the motion of Former First Lady Imelda Marcos to fly to the United States and attend the burial of Former President Ronald Reagan.
The court denied the motion following Marcos’s failure to present a formal invitation from the family of the late US President.
Considering the way Republicans manufactured outrage over alleged politicizing of Paul Wellstone's memorial, they wouldn't dare use Reagan's funeral as an excuse for any politicking. Right? Right??
Well, at the very least, when they do politicize the funeral and memorial services, voices on the left ought to call them on it, pointing out the contrast with their own statements barely two years ago. Maybe we ought to start collecting quotes now...
Anybody catch the story about the Pakistani who claims he was al-Qaeda and received flight training in Bangladesh? He supposedly blew his ops money in Atlantic City an act which sounded vaguely familiar:
http://freedomdrone.coffeen.net/archives/000036.html
FWIW, Bush doesn't fire people, especially Tenet who has the goods on him.
2) Tenet wanted out some time ago but Dub wouldn't release him.
So farmgirl's proposal #1 above is unlikely; I can't see Tenet flipping or wearing a wire. Second proposal holds more water; Tenet was asked to cover for a crime and he refused.
So he quit. And Bush was not happy; understandable if he had lost Tenet's cover and had to hire a personal lawyer.
I'm travelling and thus haven't been plugged into my usual media outlets. So I'm refreshingly unaware of 99% of the Reagan 24/7 stuff. I recommend this "turn it off" approach for anyone who's bothered by propaganda blitzes or unappealing news cycles. No wonder Bush seems so sunny most of the time.
That said, it does seem to me that Bush's stature has been diminished by the implicit comparison with RR. His D-Day appearances have not just been overshadowed by the news, but they also pale by comparison with Reagan's Normandy appearance 20 years ago. The little guy just can't catch a break.
wake me when Reagan is buried. i'm overdosing on treacle.
Thanks for the open thread. Work sucks, don't it? I could just sit here and read these threads all day. Here's a little food for thought on one subject that's been papered over this week by Ronniepalooza (thanks for that one!). www.yuricareport.com
The President May Be Indicted
June 4, 2004
Reported by Katherine Yurica
Witnesses have testified before a federal grand jury implicating President George W. Bush in the illegal outing of Valerie Plame, a CIA covert operative.
NEW: The Serious Implications of President Bush's Hiring A Personal Outside Counsel for the Valerie Plame Investigation by John W. Dean
The Dean article is well worth reading. Comments anyone?
I'm telling you - the stupid Republicans and their media pals are overplaying Reagan's death. People just don't care that much - he was 93, for crying out loud, and he wasn't really remembered all that fondly by most. A Republican co-worker of my wife's - a Reagan fanatic - even was complaining about the coverage, noting that for crying out loud he was 93 and out of the limelight for 10+ years.
An example of how much they're overblowing it, for me, came on Saturday when I flipped on Sam Donaldson talking about Reagan. I watched for about 2 minutes. Donaldson was going on and on about how much America adored Reagan. He actually said "America had a love affair with Ronald Reagan." Leaving aside the fact that millions upon millions - a vast majority - either voted against him or didn't bother to get to the polls to vote for him in 1980 and 1984, leaving aside his tepid poll numbers at the end of his term - isn't "love affair" an awfully strong term to use for what Reagan inspired in all but his most fervent admirers? The point is worth noting. Reagan was hailed in most news reports, even in Donaldson's, for his avuncular manner, his affability, not the oceans of passion that he inspired. The fact that "America's" relationship with Reagan is summed up as torrid shows that the media is actually referring to the 10% - 20% of the country who loved him and was really in tune with everything he did, and virtually ignoring the rest. I don't think this is going to sell.
You're G. Tenet. You were at least committed to do the job right. Then you get an operative ratted out...one of YOUR people!!! The boss won't help you find out who it is (you even suspect he knows who it is). You even take a hit for your boss on THE biggest disaster to ever hit the country. Your boss decides to take the spy business into his own hands and torture not just POW'S, but innocent citizens as well. You realize that the executive branch of the government is way out of control and that there is nothing that you can do to stop it. What do you do?
You lay down your spy briefcase, your spy folder, your spy watch...and walk away.
Voodoo
Yurica's source is Capital Hill Blue, I'd wait for another one or two sources to do some digging before I'd take that as 100% reliable
a 93 year old man, who has suffered from Alzheimers for ten years
More like twenty. If you remember him drifting away during the Mondale debates, you have to wonder...
Well, at the very least, when they do politicize the funeral and memorial services, voices on the left ought to call them on it, pointing out the contrast with their own statements barely two years ago.
You don't understand. The Wellstone "politicization" outrage was knowingly and skillfully manufactured by right-wing media working in concert. To create that sort of thing you need fully-owned media outlets ready to keep tight discipline. Having a few pols bleat about it won't accomplish anything. Until our side has sufficiently large and coordinated media under tight control, we won't be able to match them.
Open thread, eh? I guess that means OT blogwhoring is allowed. Ok, so, the next time a braindead friend or relative tells you Democrats were asleep at the wheel on terrorism, while Dubya is "tough on terra", refer them here.
Ammo, folks. We need all the talking points we can get. The only way to drown out the noise machine is with actual facts. Facts are to Rovians like garlic is to a vampire.
@ nickm
I'm telling you - the stupid Republicans and their media pals are overplaying Reagan's death.
Having spent the last 24 years and counting in the media, I can tell you that all the reports, all the footage, all the "specials" on Uncle Ronnie have been in the can for the last 10 years. You can bet your sweet bippie that the networks are going to get their milage out of this "news" coverage.
In broadcasting, we call it the Parsimony Principle, that is: Program material must be used as sparingly as possible, repeated as often as possible and shared as widely as possible. That way they get the most bang for their buck...it's going to be all Ronnie all the time until he gets planted.
@Bernhard 12:15
stupid post - did mean Mistress Mary Walker
Well, since Billmon's gone, I'll blogwhore. I wrote a ditty or two about Ronny and the Re-thugs today, if any have any interest.
Ronny not yet Risen
And, Ballad of the 101st Keyboarders
Fish:
You lay down your spy briefcase, your spy folder, your spy watch...and walk away.
Don't forget your decoder ring!!! ;-)
Talk amongst yourselves...
Posted by: legion at June 8, 2004 11:53 AM
Personally I think Tenent resigned for political misdirection. Look, over there!! George Tenent's resigning!! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
Whatayawannabet they try getting his crummy little picture on the dime again next week?
@Richard Cranium
In your blog today you posted: "If George Bush had expended even a scintilla of the effort on terrorism (before the 9/11 horse was out of the barn) that Clinton did, 9/11 would not have happened."
That kind of absolute statement is counter-productive and inflammatory. While you did an excellent job of pointing out positive things Clinton did or attempted- we should never say "9/11 would not have happened if." My opinion is that it really isn't that hard to commit a massive act of terrorism. There isn't a whole lot that can stop a madman or group of madmen from killing people if they are motivated enough.
In Bush's speech to the graduates of the Air Force Academy, he used the phrase "coming global conflict." I'm not sure how anyone else interprets this, and I'd be curious.
What really scares me is, this guy really believes Armageddon is coming.
I think someone posted this article somewhere on one of these threads (this should be a Forum so that one could keep track of this stuff, but I guess then it would morph from bar to office..), and its accuracy was discussed :
Bush’s erratic behavior worries white house aides.
Link
Anyway, reportedly Bush said: “That's it George. I cannot abide disloyalty. I want your resignation and I want it now."
The story is as credible as anything else, as the timing of Tenet’s departure was so poor -- and I did read one other article that said that Condi was surprised. Surely, a major event like the head of the CIA quitting would have been discussed and prepared. So I can believe it was abrupt. And if abrupt, the abruptness would not have been Tenet’s, but his boss’. And Bush makes speedy decisions. As we know. Through introspection or belief or other arcane processes we know nothing about and can only guess at.
My guess (all this is speculation) is it had nothing whatsoever to do with the congressional reports, that is just business as usual, and known. If it had, Tenet would have been made more of scapegoat, and there would have been preparation, connivance even. My second guess is that it is not about Plame either, everybody up there knows what happened, and they are just somehow spinning things out on that. Other heads may roll.
No, this had to do with Chalabi (look at the temporal contiguity as well.) The CIA drove a stake through Chalabi -- a spy for Iran! And the neo-cons continued to try to prop up their man Chalabi...
The CIA stuck a spanner in the works. That is not on.
--Blackie on a mountain in Switzerland in the sunshine.
I think someone posted this article somewhere on one of these threads (this should be a Forum so that one could keep track of this stuff, but I guess then it would morph from bar to office..), and its accuracy was discussed :
Bush’s erratic behavior worries white house aides.
Link
Anyway, reportedly Bush said: “That's it George. I cannot abide disloyalty. I want your resignation and I want it now."
The story is as credible as anything else, as the timing of Tenet’s departure was so poor -- and I did read one other article that said that Condi was surprised. Surely, a major event like the head of the CIA quitting would have been discussed and prepared. So I can believe it was abrupt. And if abrupt, the abruptness would not have been Tenet’s, but his boss’. And Bush makes speedy decisions. As we know. Through introspection or belief or other arcane processes we know nothing about and can only guess at.
My guess (all this is speculation) is it had nothing whatsoever to do with the congressional reports, that is just business as usual, and known. If it had, Tenet would have been made more of scapegoat, and there would have been preparation, connivance even. My second guess is that it is not about Plame either, everybody up there knows what happened, and they are just somehow spinning things out on that. Other heads may roll.
No, this had to do with Chalabi (look at the temporal contiguity as well.) The CIA drove a stake through Chalabi -- a spy for Iran! And the neo-cons continued to try to prop up their man Chalabi...
The CIA stuck a spanner in the works. That is not on.
--Blackie on a mountain in Switzerland in the sunshine.
I think someone posted this article somewhere on one of these threads (this should be a Forum so that one could keep track of this stuff, but I guess then it would morph from bar to office..), and its accuracy was discussed :
Bush’s erratic behavior worries white house aides.
Link
Anyway, reportedly Bush said: “That's it George. I cannot abide disloyalty. I want your resignation and I want it now."
The story is as credible as anything else, as the timing of Tenet’s departure was so poor -- and I did read one other article that said that Condi was surprised. Surely, a major event like the head of the CIA quitting would have been discussed and prepared. So I can believe it was abrupt. And if abrupt, the abruptness would not have been Tenet’s, but his boss’. And Bush makes speedy decisions. As we know. Through introspection or belief or other arcane processes we know nothing about and can only guess at.
My guess (all this is speculation) is it had nothing whatsoever to do with the congressional reports, that is just business as usual, and known. If it had, Tenet would have been made more of scapegoat, and there would have been preparation, connivance even. My second guess is that it is not about Plame either, everybody up there knows what happened, and they are just somehow spinning things out on that. Other heads may roll.
No, this had to do with Chalabi (look at the temporal contiguity as well.) The CIA drove a stake through Chalabi -- a spy for Iran! And the neo-cons continued to try to prop up their man Chalabi...
The CIA stuck a spanner in the works. That is not on.
--Blackie on a mountain in Switzerland in the sunshine.
@ beq,
Of course, my mistake!!! You can't forget the decoder ring!! :)
You think the Republicans can't stoop any lower?
Ronald Reagan is just the appetiser - Karl Rove is pacing up and down outside 91 year old Gerald Ford's house right now, hoping to scare the old guy into having a heart attack. Then, just before the election, George Junior's going to have a watertight alibi on the night Karl slips around to see George Herbert Walker Bush (aged 80), gives him the old 'for the good of the party' routine, then smears soap all over the banisters.
Next thing you know young George is milking the sympathy for all its worth , reaping the benefit of the tide of pity and nostalgia and then it's win one for Pop, the Gipper and old what's his name.
You think that they wouldn't do it? Take a look at that smirk of Bush's again
That kind of absolute statement is counter-productive and inflammatory.
That statement is quite intentionally intended to be inflammatory.
Seems to me that Rovians don't have any problem with dealing in absolutes. We (progressives) have to get over the skeeviness that "steering statements" cause us.
@ Ploter:
Hell Yeah! :)
sorry, I don't know how that happened. Apologies.
Sallyh, not only does Bush believe Armageddon's coming, but he can't wait because he's gonna get "raptured" and we're not! God obviously likes him best.
What scares me is how many people dismiss Bush's fundamentalist mind-set as a factor in his presidency.
@ Plotter:
Nope, *I'm* not drinking. :)
One of the more disgusting things about the current outflow of Reagain-related treacle is how easy it is for the media whores to forget the little people who made Reagan possible: namely, the poor, the sick, the dispossessed and the dead tallied up in Reagan's various crusades and proxy battles. Of course, they were all too readily ignored while Reagan was alive. I've posted a remembrance of the victims at Reading A1.
another juicy theory (source? here?) was that Tenet just found out that Bush knew the identity of the Plame leaker, and when Bush refused to punish that person, Tenet finally had enough and resigned on principle. This ties neatly with Bush "lawyering up".
That's my theory. And I think someone else said the same thing. Maybe the CIA got proof of the leaker and Tenet just couldn't take it anymore. He looked like a man who'd had enough.
As for chimpy, does the term "unindicted co-conspirator" ring any bells for you guys? How much fun would that be? (for you youngsters, that's what Nixon was during Watergate)
Save America!
Get the religious loonies out of the WH!
When that happens I'll go on the town with a grin on my face and get a few raptures on the side.
Next thing you know young George is milking the sympathy for all its worth , reaping the benefit of the tide of pity and nostalgia and then it's win one for Pop, the Gipper and old what's his name.
I only have one response to the death of Reagan. What the hell is wrong with this country??
Yes, people can choose to believe that he was a great president or not, I don't think that is the point. And sure it can be sad that someone who had an impact over this country or world has died.
But there are people standing in lines for hours just to walk by a box wrapped in a flag? There are people, all ages, races, sexes, crying over his death?? People calling this a tragedy? He was 93!! Get over it! Most people can only hope to live to be that old, but this is tragic?
What about the 500+ American soldiers who have died in Iraq? Why aren't they being treated to this kind of a farewell?? I am sure the repugs have been planning this party for quite some time.
Save America! Get the religious loonies out of the WH!
How about out of america altogether? In my opinion they're every bit as dangerous as any muslim fanatic.
IMO, the Reagan coverage is a display of power, a not so subtle way to tell Americans and the rest of the world who’s boss. We’ll tell you lie after lie about this senile man because we can, and there’s nothing you can do about it.
CNN uber alles.
"The evil that men do lives after them,
the good is oft interred with their bones;"
Mark Antony, from Julius Ceasar --
Act III, Scene II
The good that Reagan brought was his sunny optimism, and his buoyant personality. It was exactly the tonic our Country needed, and for that -- we owe him a debt of gratitude.
As for his policies, they were a mixed bag. As Paul Krugman points out, Reagan was "The Great Taxer" -- he sponsored the biggest tax increases in American History. The contrast with Bush only highlights Junior's ideological rigidity, and managerial incompetence.
Beyond that, the evil of Reagan's policies live on, and excert a malignant influence to this day. He was the smiley face of self righteous cruelty. There is a direct line from Ronald Reagan to 9/11 -- Reagan created Osama; and Poppy Bush let him fester into Al Qaeda. The Iraq disaster and the scandal of Abu Gharib are merely the poison fruit of the poison tree, that are the essence of the heart of darkness that is Reaganism.
But there are people standing in lines for hours just to walk by a box wrapped in a flag? There are people, all ages, races, sexes, crying over his death?? People calling this a tragedy? He was 93!! Get over it! Most people can only hope to live to be that old, but this is tragic?
I hate to break it to you, but my fellow americans are morons. I suspect that a lot of people just want a chance to walk by those live cameras wailing and weeping. It's a chance to show up on FOX!! To rub elbows with celebrity, even really dead celebrity.
Underdog wrote:
There isn't a whole lot that can stop a madman or group of madmen from killing people if they are motivated enough.
No kidding. A different kind of terror, if you will: Gary Leon Ridgeway.
ck, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, n'est-çe pas?
How is Bush doing in your home states?
I live in Texas. Bush still owns Texas, but not like Bush used to own Texas. My sense is that he is continuing to lose ground with Hispanics and women.
My guess in Texas:
Bush - 54%
Kerry - 44%
other - 2%
If a Reagan gets on any bills I planning on stamping 'mass murderer' on them.
All this bullshit about Reagan is driving me nuts. It reminds of North Korea and the Kim Jong Ill (sp) kicked the bucket.
Reagan deserves to be on a 3 dollar IOU --
A bogus bill, passed on to our kids . . .
What about the 500+ American soldiers who have died in Iraq? Why aren't they being treated to this kind of a farewell??
Well put, very well put. I was going to add something to that, but I do not have the words to do so...
OT, but does anyone know what Billmon's background in economics is? I was really impressed with the "wild blue yonder" post...
If a Reagan gets on any bills I planning on stamping 'mass murderer' on them.
ooooooooo. If he gets in the dime, we can put the international no-no on it with red nail varnish. :)
"So farmgirl's proposal #1 above is unlikely; I can't see Tenet flipping or wearing a wire. Second proposal holds more water; Tenet was asked to cover for a crime and he refused.
So he quit. And Bush was not happy; understandable if he had lost Tenet's cover and had to hire a personal lawyer."
Perhaps Tenet will be this administrations John Dean?
After suffering through all this Ronnipalooza bullshit (thanks for the expression!), I propose that we dump all this kind of tripe onto one news outlet and let it flow 24/7 there for those who wish to have it. We could call it Boring National Crap.
(I'd have suggested National Boring Crap, but that's already taken.)
@ The Fish -
I understand that a lot of obituary material is canned. I just don't think the "cans" are really going to "sell." Isn't television about ratings, and they pull stuff that doesn't get people to watch. In my opinion - and that's all it is, along with some clues from people I interact with daily - people aren't all that interested in watching flag-draped caskets getting pulled around, crowds snaking past a coffin, Newt Gingrich squirting a few over his dead hero, etc. It's just plain dull. When Republicans and their media outlets try to sell Reagan's neverending funeral rites and tributes to him as patriotic chicken soup for the American soul I think they come off as the out-of-touch fanatics and/or opportunists that they are.
How is Bush doing in your home states?
I'm in NJ (I can't believe I just admitted that) and I think that Kerry is ahead, but it might be too far from Nov. to tell. Our primaries are today, I think the scariest thing is that this state has the potential to swing red. There is a huge military influence, the media of Philadelphia and the corruption of Gov. Pinocchio... but then again we are in a time when the death of a crappy leader results in 99.9% of the population deeming him 'best person to live...ever!'
We could call it Boring National Crap.
yeah, then they can stop interrupting my soaps:)
I'm surprised there was no mention on the top lefty sites of Saturday's NY Times article on the Brandon Mayfield case... a scary story of FBI overreach.
Mayfield should be thankful the Spanish were involved, or he'd still be in jail facing the death penalty -- and the real terrorist(s) would still be at large.
Here's grist for the mill: Tenet resigned the day after Bush lied in the Rose Garden about how well he knew Chilabi - the only guy to call him on it was Jon Stewart - It was Bush's "I did not have sexual realtions..." moment and we should not let it pass by unnoticed.
How orchestrated this all was we'll never know, but we don't have to care - just remind everyone of this pathetic lie - that'll do the trick.
What about the 500+ American soldiers who have died in Iraq?
Who is giving you your figures? Paul Wolfowitz? Something in the region of 820 American soldiers have died in Iraq now.
The military and their families tend to be traditionally solidly Republican. That's the area to watch, then, for a contrary trend - which might just happen with all the causalties, extended terms and, it seems, general dissatisfaction. Does anyone have sufficient contacts with the military to confirm this?
I don't watch tv but I'll never forget standing in a line with my mother all night on a Sunday night in November from 7:00 p.m. until after midnight to see a casket in 1963. The line was six abreast and stretched from the Capitol rotunda east past Lincoln Park and not a loud word was spoken that I heard the whole night. There were no tv cameras. A tough act to follow.
A rather disturbing AP article that just crossed my screen:
Fires at the Iraq National Library set as U.S. forces took over Baghdad did not destroy large numbers of rare books and ancient manuscripts as initially feared, U.S. investigators say.
Instead, the fires apparently were aimed at destroying sensitive records about Saddam Hussein's government, said Mary-Jane Deeb, a specialist on the Arab world at the Library of Congress.
In Bush's speech to the graduates of the Air Force Academy, he used the phrase "coming global conflict." I'm not sure how anyone else interprets this, and I'd be curious.
What really scares me is, this guy really believes Armageddon is coming.
I think there's more than enough evidence to think that a lot of these people live in hope that they're bringing it on.
PS Want to take this space to thank Billmon for his hard work here and for creating this place of sanity. Really appreciate the kinds of thoughtful comments I can read here.
On the other hand, who's getting any work done? ;-)
Dwight Meredith over at Wampum has put together an interesting bit of statistics about Reagan's economic legacy. Actually his piece looks at what happened with budgets, GDP, inflation and unemployment during the presidencies of Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon, Reagan and Clinton, the presidents who in the past 52 years served two terms.
You may not agree with Dwight's methodology, but he provides us with a starting point to get past the all-too-common routine of did to/did not employed when the left and right get embroiled over this issue.
This week, of course, everything about Ronald Reagan is "great." Not surprisingly, what Dwight discovers is that all those who are saying Reagan's terms of office were great economically have got some 'splainin' to do.
Instead, the fires apparently were aimed at destroying sensitive records about Saddam Hussein's government, said Mary-Jane Deeb, a specialist on the Arab world at the Library of Congress.
yeah, it really sucks when you can't wisk it off to your daddy's presidential library, and the enron shredders musta been tied up.
Several years ago there was an effort to get Reagan's head on Mt. Rushmore. A local reporter went to a Rushmore Park Ranger and asked him what he thought about the feasibility of such a project, and he responded that he didn't think the rock was hard enough.
We all about died laughing.
since we're speculating on Tenet's departure, I'll just go with some vague mumbling about how he bailed basically because he saw some very very bad shit approaching the fan and didn't want to be around when it actually hit. exact nature of bad shit very much in question, mostly because there are so many many major scandals hovering over BushCo.
it wouldn't even have to be something that touched Tenet. I can easily see how one wouldn't want to be DCI on the day the 9/11 commish report is released, but the petty vindictiveness of the Bush family is justifiably world-famous and if I were a potential scapegoat who knew that something unpleasant was about to happen in the WH I'd just want to get as far the hell away from it as I could...
also, I suspect that there is currently a lot of action taking place behind the scenes as the few remaining grownups in the GOP prepare for the possibility of having to actually try to get rid of Shrub against his will if he becomes too much of a liability. no I'm not joking. Republicans are not inherently dumb, and assuming that they have no plan B and C is wishful thinking. guesses about the public faces of that distancing if it becomes necessary: Hegel and Warner in the Senate... I don't know who in the House.
speaking of the House, whatever happened to the Nick Smith bribery case? and what about Katrina Leung?
just askin'
A head on Mount Rushmore wouldn't be enough for Ronald Reagan. As a ghostly wind whipped around the mountain you'd be able to hear a reedy, whining voice saying:
"Where's the rest of me?"
I hate to break it to you, but my fellow americans are morons.
Lincoln expressed it pretty well - fool all sometimes, fool some all the time - won't get fooled again ? - but of course they do. Meet the new boss, same old boss.
But seriously, folks, if people don't have the mental capacity to deal with reality - as the saying goes, "You can't handle the truth" - then why isn't it a good idea to use the Noble Lie tactic so beloved of the NeoCons? The masses are sheep, our Shepherds must use crooked staffs to guide us (and yank us by our necks when we get out of line). As the Grand Inquisitor of Fyodor D. put it in the Brothers K., the bosses run things, the people swallow pleasant fables, everybody's happy. DH Lawrence, in his commentary on this, said - "Notice that Jesus doesn't say a word back to him - this shows that the Grand Inquisitor's arguments are indisputably correct." Do you agree or disagree with Lawrence and the Grand Inquisitor? Why or why not? State points that could be made for and against this position, and indicate where you think the weight of the evidence lies. And if your answer is, "It depends" - very good, you are correct! Upon what does it depend?
And now back to the news that matters - how long do you think J-Lo and Marc Antony will stay married?
@ nickm
I just don't think the "cans" are really going to "sell."
What they are selling is their "news coverage". Showing their audiance that they are on top of the story, no matter what the story might be. Boring as shit? You bet. Is it selling? You bet. You can also bet that by the end of the week, there will be what we call viewer information overload. Viewers will be watching the Cartoon Network to get away from "the story". But the media will follow this story all the way to the grave (pun intended).
Plus a couple of more things to remember...Reagan passed away on the weekend of the 60th anniversary of D-Day. That in itself is a big story. I can't prove it, but I'm sure that Karl Rove had something to do with that. And also remember that, in the context of things, Reagan had a large and I mean large Democratic base. Many, many Democrates crossed party lines to vote for Reagan, taking 49 of 50 states. Though his sins have come to light, all in all, America has a soft spot for him. You didn't see this kind of over the top coverage when Nixion passed away. Sure, they found some people to speak some kind words, but it didn't have this kind of build up. We won't see this when Ford, Carter, G.H.W. Bush pass away. We may see something like it when Clinton goes. Bill C. had/has the same kind of spell over America that Reagan did.
All I can say is, let the Republicans have their moment of grief, their moment to pause and remember Dutch Reagan...because, my friend, the shit is about to hit the fan.
How is Bush doing in your home states?
Kerry has closed a ten point gap to six points in Louisiana, or so I saw somewhere in the past few days. Bush-48%, Kerry-42%. I'd be interested to know how the area around Ft. Polk polled. It's a huge Army base, and it might give us a clue as to how to answer Big Mike's question about which way the military is leaning these days.
What surprised me was that Bush didn't have a majority, but then I live in the crimson part of this red state so I'm surrounded by the lunatics. My neighbors think I'm the weirdest duck to ever quack, and although some are cool to me, most of them are either cordial or genuinely friendly. Those Southern manners, I suppose.
dividedandconquered,
Bush didn't know Kenny-Boy Lay well either. When Cheney is indicted, he'll say they just had a "professional relationship and he only recognized Cheney in passing."
My wife and I feel a profound sense of despair to live in a country where 50% of the people worship greed, criminal activity, feel-good mythology, and have zero sense of community beyond their immediate family and friends.
We waver between wanting to fight it and wanting to leave it. Leaving it seems the better choice when we consider that half this country wouldn't appreciate the effort even if our side wins out in the end.
What's the point? It's like watching the battle scenes in Return of the King. The enemy is so utterly formidable; good is always in the minority, and it takes miracles for good to triumph. It is a fantasy novel after all. Real life isn't.
Patrick
Just saw a poll on CNN re: Reagan's presidency ratings - Outstanding 15% Above Average 43% What's wrong with people????
In recent days Haaretz has had several Zionist gems.
One, which I can’t find at the moment, quoted someone, I think one of the ultra-orthodox political leaders, saying that Sharon’s Gaza plan is “tantamount to ethnic cleansing.”
Then there’s this one (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/435528.html) about Israel’s plans for the Bedouin communities: “The Housing Ministry is not waiting for the planned solutions for the Bedouin community in the Negev to be completed. It is advancing the establishment of Jewish settlements near the Bedouin communities to "block" their "expansion."”
Finally, Akiva Eldar (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/435918.html) reproduces some comments by Housing and Construction Minister Effi Eitam, allegedly from the May 31 edition of The New Yorker:
"It is not by chance that the State of Israel got the mission to pave the way for the rest of the world, to militarily get rid of these dark forces."
Eldar goes on: “According to The New Yorker's Jeffrey Goldberg, Eitam told him that there are "innocent men among the Palestinians, but they are collectively guilty," and "we will have to kill them all." To avoid mistakes, the leader of the National Religious Party added: "I know it's not very diplomatic. I don't mean all the Palestinians, but the ones with evil in their heads - not only blood on their hands, but evil in their heads. They are contaminating the hearts and minds of the next generation of Palestinians."”
[One oddity about these quotes: they don’t seem to be in the only May 31 story by Goldberg that I can find on the New Yorker site (a piece about the settlers that’s posted at http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040531fa_fact2_a). If anyone gets the mag in paper, it would be interesting to know whether the online version of this piece is censored, or if Goldberg has a separate piece quoting Eitam.]
The extended terms of service seem unconscionable to me and more proof that they didn't have a clue as to what kind of Pandora's Box, they were opening. Amateurish. Murderous. Treacherous to our desires vis-a-vis relations in the middle-east and our allies in general.
Did everone here read Gore's prescient Sept. 2002 speech?
The man must have been working with a crystal ball. And remember that this was not knowing that all Saddam's WMD's no longer existed - so the argument that he was somehow a threat to our interests still existed.
Now that they don't this whole thing has been slightly insane - and the continued spinning, instead of admitting blunders and wrong-headedness, goes further in lowering America's stature in the world. The world is not 45% hard-core Republican and will not swallow the spin - they don't get Limbaugh in France - they're nauseated as are the people we would most like to influence in the middle-east.
85% of the French disagree with Bush policies, yet they were pretty damn civil - to get 85% of anybody to agree on something is remarkable in this day and age (see my handle)- Did anyone here see the world press bitch-slapping the Prez on Saturday (who was testy) when CNN cut away?
On the outside chance you haven't seen it - cut and paste
http://www.commonwealthclub.org/archive/02/02-09gore-speech.html
I smell shit hitting the fan:
U.S.'s Ashcroft Won't Release or Discuss Torture Memo
June 8 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft, warned that he might be risking a contempt citation from Congress, told lawmakers he won't release or discuss memoranda that news reports say offered justification for torturing suspected terrorists.
Democratic members of the Senate Judiciary Committee asked Ashcroft about reports in the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post and the New York Times that the Justice Department advised the White House in 2002 and 2003 that it might not be bound by U.S. and international laws prohibiting torture. Ashcroft said he wouldn't reveal advice he gave to President George W. Bush or discuss it with Congress.
``The president has a right to hear advice from his attorney general, in confidence,'' Ashcroft said. He also refused to answer whether he personally believes torture can be justified under certain circumstances.
The Washington Post, citing one Justice Department memo, said government lawyers told the White House in August 2002 that torturing captured al-Qaeda members abroad may be justified in the war on terrorism.
Executive Privilege
Senator Joseph Biden, a Delaware Democrat, challenged Ashcroft to say whether he was invoking executive privilege in refusing to give Congress the Justice Department memos. Ashcroft said he wasn't invoking executive privilege.
``You might be in contempt of Congress, then,'' Biden replied. ``You have to have a reason. You better come up with a good rationale.''
Later, Senator Richard Durbin, an Illinois Democrat, said Ashcroft had to cite a federal statute to justify not sharing the requested information. Ashcroft replied that his refusal was ``protected by the doctrine of separation of powers in the Constitution.'' Durbin shot back, ``You are not citing a law.''
Senator Orrin Hatch, a Utah Republican and chairman of the committee, asked Ashcroft whether the memos in question are classified. After consulting with staff members, Ashcroft replied, ``Some of these memos might be classified in some ways, and for some purposes.''
Durbin called that answer ``an evasion.
What's the point? It's like watching the battle scenes in Return of the King. The enemy is so utterly formidable; good is always in the minority, and it takes miracles for good to triumph. It is a fantasy novel after all. Real life isn't.
Hey Patrick: For Frodo!
billmon (taking advantage of byob & hoping it's my final word on the matter)
Sorry to belabour a point but I have been covering the press in the anglo saxon world & their treatment of d day. It is scandalous. It is above all bad history. & bad history has a habit of turning into political policy
I will repeat what I think is blindingly obvious - the Russians defeated fascism in stalingrad, at koursk, murmansk – it was they – a people we were told to despise who won for us whatever freedom we possessed. You don’t have to be a communist to believe that ) you just have to be a reasonable historian
The poverty of journalism is so awe inspiring – sometimes I can barely breathe. Thus the need for billmon – who is for me a kind of I f stone. I may not agree all the time but at least I feel him – I feel his word & he never resorts to sentimentalising the facts
The second front – d day or italy were not of great historical consequence though the deaths of brave men is enough reason to mourn. But even here it was much closer to disaster that anglo-saxon historians would have us to believe & then after the massacre of innocents in operation market garden by the fool Montgomery – who was neither a strategist or a tactician – he was a valet. As in the great war there was so much unnecessary loss of life which can be landed at the door of the incompetence of allied command. In short there was disaster after disaster that appear like victory because there enemy at this time was already defeated & except in a number of relatively specific circumstances welcomed the armies arriving from the west because they felt they could do a deal with them
& they were not naïve in that thinking – several American companies had maintained their interests in germany indirectly – with I g farben, for example
I get so angry about this rewriting of history because it was not until university that there were the means scholastically to understand the valorous efforts of the Russian people.
Without a university education – I would not have known of the surrender of Singapore, the sacrifice of soldiers in papua new guinea. Without that education I would have imagined from 1939 – 1945 – the british & the Americans – were constantly in battle. The fact is they were rarely in battle. & I suggest that the battle for the most part had already been won
Anger over history because everything that follows whether it was Indochina, korea latin America were an extension of bad history of bad history being used to service political policy that was inherently corrupt – corrupt in design & intent
Unlike jérôme, I don’t see a whole lot of intent – in soviet internal & foreign policy – it was a dog’s breakfast from as early as the new economic planning in 1920’s. so the defeat over fascism was not stalin’s victory nor was it the victory of Russian nationalism – it was the victory of a people who had felt in extremis the logical consequence of the ideology of fascism.
If there were moral victories they were determined by the east in each & every way
But this anglosaxon construction of history combined with the marshall plan determined the bankrupt policies of Britain, of italy, of germany & of france & it took a great deal of time for a vibrant social democracy to be created & you could say that like communism that this social democracy has been perverted by imperial obligations
We have never ever confronted what are the fundamental questions. The question billmon has highlighted – in relation to jurisprudence but I would suggest to the whole of civil society’s capacity to be usurped by a limited number of men & interests. We have never confronted for all the spectacle of shoah business – how could a society have as its basis – & not as a peripheral extension of the state an ideology that logically used extermination of its enemies
& unfortunately that has been our history – wherever resistance has arrived to imperialism from 1945 to now has been met by states & by interest which have extended that genocidal impulse
I think in our time maybe south Africa & perhaps Czechoslovakia are the two moments where we could really speak of a democratic impulse
Bad history has corrupted the meaning of that word – so that today a bad actor can be glorified as a great president & a bankrupt alcoholic whose own legislative practice was both venal & corrupt could become a president who declared war on the world & on his own people
still steel
"Tenet resigned the day after Bush lied in the Rose Garden about how well he knew Chilabi - the only guy to call him on it was Jon Stewart..."
How utterly pathetic is this?
I keep reading about how the press has woken up, but so far it only seems to be the WSJ...
route66:
Ashcroft said he wouldn't reveal advice he gave to President George W. Bush or discuss it with Congress
These people live in a dream world. Ashcroft is pretending he's Bush's personal counsel now.
The Fish: ou lay down your spy briefcase, your spy folder, your spy watch...and walk away.
Very nice! ;-)
Tenet resigned the day after Bush lied in the Rose Garden: "I did not have sexual relations with that man (Chalabi)"?
@ Henry -
Those quotes you mention from the Goldberg article in the New Yorker were in my print edition - I remember reading them. It's worth picking up the print edition of the New Yorker to read that piece, which is excellent.
So what exactly will it take for the Repubs in the house/senate to get off their asses and put a stop to this crap? The whole lot of them Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Rice and on and on have all participated in impeachable acts. Do they need PICTURES to tell them how bad it is? I'm sure some of the security cameras in the WH, Pentagon ect could provide them the proof, along with the audio tapes. Those evil cameras.
Who is Bandar Bush?
Mayfield should be thankful the Spanish were involved, or he'd still be in jail facing the death penalty -- and the real terrorist(s) would still be at large.
Posted by: WWDT at June 8, 2004 01:57 PM
The FBI almost got away with the old, "My mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts" routine.
I wonder how many others have been "slam dunked" because of false fingerprint matches?
Reagan was a friend only to the rich, powerful and franchised.
For poor people, for disenfranchised groups like gays, and for defenseless countries like Nicauragua that became victim of his "mano dura," he became their worst nightmare.
I tend to agree with the comments of former Nicaraguan president Daniel Ortega, who two days ago stated that he laments the fact that Reagan died without being punished for all the crimes against humanity that he had committed.
"We regret the death of a human being," he said. "but it is more regretful that this person who committed crimes in various parts of the world was never punished."
"We cannot say that Reagan respected international law, nor that he treated Nicaragua well, we cannot lie about these things," he continued. "What we can ask is that God pardon him, because the capacity and the love of God is so great that only he can deal with him."
Up thread: I see beq floated the Reagan on a dime idea again.
I wouldn't beg that off necessarily beq...
Here's why:
Ronnie's dad lost his job selling shoes during the depression. Then via FDR's New Deal he obtained government employment handing out assistance checks to the unemployed.
So you see...Ron's family stayed afloat because they were on the government dime.
(insert groans here)
Artist's conception of Reagan on Mt. Rushmore
I checked Bush's Air Force Academy speech, and he doesn't use the exact phrase "coming global conflict" (a favorite among Christian Revelation freaks).
He does use "global conflict," but we already knew he thought of the War on Terror as such.
rememberinggiap:
We have never ever confronted what are the fundamental questions. The question billmon has highlighted – in relation to jurisprudence but I would suggest to the whole of civil society’s capacity to be usurped by a limited number of men & interests. We have never confronted for all the spectacle of shoah business – how could a society have as its basis – & not as a peripheral extension of the state an ideology that logically used extermination of its enemies
What you write is interesting. Could you please expand on the above? I don't completely understand what you are getting at. Are you talking about the Cold War or something different? I am a bit confused and would like to understand you better here. Thanks.
A bad news day in Iraq
http://dailywarnews.blogspot.com/
click one of the Casualty Reports, local stories links for an idea of the kind of goos people that are in harm's way for no good reason. Try Missouri.
mispell - goos=good
Thanks Kate! Welcome back to the bar.
a possible reason for the WSJ recent reporting swing:
Labor unrest at Wall Street Journal
Staff writers and other workers at the Wall Street Journal did something unprecedented in early April. For the first time in the newspaper's history they set up a picket line to let the world know that the mouthpiece of corporate America is unfair to its workers.
it's the 3rd story down on the page....they're mad and they're not going to take it anymore
I'm with jimBOB and alabama and others who noticed that Big "Gentle" Daddy Ron was impaired for far longer than ten years. The Reagan years followed by four of Poppy Bush was almost more than my poor psyche could stand for all the insanity of that "era". I had small children then. I was well read then as I am now. I was angry and worried and sad. I sent the "great man" a letter about the arms race and the cold war. I sent him a solution. It was the first and only time I'd written to a man whose pant hem I was supposedly not worthy to kiss. Ptooie! The sooner they have this installment of the reality TV show "Bread and Circuses" over, the better. Were I to sign on the to whole redemptionist religion thing I'd say: God help you, Ronnie. But I don't, so I won't. ;-)
Well I for one waited several hours to see Reagan's casket yesterday. Why? Morbid curiosity. Nor was I disappointed.
Five servicemen in full regalia stood still and ramrod-straight in a circle around the Great Man's casket, while us workerbees shuffled past. I was fortunate to witness the changing of the guard, during which time seemed to freeze as the five servicemen were relieved by five others, according to an excruciatingly slow series of synchronized, choreographed steps, salutes and gun motions. It was both intimate and epic, both charged with meaning and totally empty, as if a global locus of power was somehow being maintained via this human clockworks, even though there were only 20 people in the room and the guy in the casket was a befuddled B actor.
The whole spectacle was a testament to the power and effectiveness of the Republican's populist outreach, and more than a little cult-like. For me it was both beautiful and chilling, certainly a once-in-a-lifetime event.
(The Red Cross was handing out unlimited free bottled water to anybody who wanted it, for which everyone waiting in line was grateful. I resisted the impish urge to needle anybody that such a ritual expenditure was "socialist".)
I'm with jimBOB and alabama and others who noticed a long time ago that Big "Gentle" Daddy Ron was impaired for far longer than ten years. The Reagan years followed by four of Poppy Bush was almost more than my poor psyche could stand for all the insanity of that "era". I had small children then. I was well read then as I am now. I was angry and worried and sad. I sent the "great man" a letter about the arms race and the cold war. I sent him a solution. It was the first and only time I'd written to a man whose pant hem I was supposedly not worthy to kiss. Ptooie! The sooner they have this installment of the reality TV show "Bread and Circuses" over, the better. Were I to sign on the to whole redemptionist religion thing I'd say: God help you, Ronnie. But I don't, so I won't. ;-)
@ -pea-
Seems like a "talking point" for the repugs. :-(
route66 --
Great catch! Only in Bush'Murka could we be saddled with a mediocrity like the Krisco Kid -- who seems to forget who he is working for. Not to mention, it was that famous GOP pornographer, Kenny Boy Starr -- that effectively ended attorney client privilege for guv'mint lawyers.
This crew is dumber than a box of rocks -- but infinitely more dangerous.
Thanks for the welcome back Fish. I've been here. Just speechless with the Ronnie worship in the world. Human beings are so peculiar, eh? Stunningly so.
WWDT, thanks for the correction...I may have misread it. I'll check my source texts again.
Reverend Howard: The Ronnie on Mt. Rushmore image is priceless! Thank you. Made me laugh for the first time today.
As to what's happening here in S. California with the funereal spectacle: The freeways around Simi Valley are jammed to the max. The wait on the freeways is said to be six hours, and another several hours when you finally get to the shuttle area. It's All Ronnie All the Time here. Same as it was when they put Nixon in the dirt. I was closer to that. It thunderstormed and hailed as soon as the plane landed with his entourage and the band played "Hail to the Chief" (no Ruffles and Flourishes, though).
Hail to the chief? Hail, yes!
yawn, yawn. w. will take it again. they just want everything to remain the way it is until the election.
just read a skrid on the politicaljunkie. com by zogby stating that w will get it because of 13 points that have shown that the incumbent gets the ring.
depressing
Kate Storm
From my perspective here in Mexico, there is certainly no "Ronnie worship" in the world, only in the United States.
I'll come out of the dugout for a curtain call when Ashcroft resigns...
screw the Reagan memorials...these day's I'm wistful for the days of Archie Cox and Elliot Richardson and William Ruckelshaus...
Sorry for the double posting. I got an error message when I hit the button, and should have waited to see it it posted. Mea culpa. But at least I didn't authorize the training of death squads in Central America. ;-(
Does anyone think that the 24/7 Ronnie-rama is a republican effort to give one of theirs a send off rivaling JFK's? I fully recognize that the two deaths cannot be compared, but republicans are always over reaching in an effort to confer on themselves a sense of nobility.
route66
...As a result, Reagan, while "often mocked abroad," has "become something of a cult" at home. "In this as in other things," they conclude, "what made America feel good about itself makes others deeply alarmed."
That's obviously a typo in the WaPo article quoting the English 'Guardian' newspaper that you cite. Obviously it should read ...As a result, Reagan, while "often mocked abroad," has "become something of a cunt" at home.
WaPo article
If you need a laugh go to Juan Cole - great joke to lead off, and then a story about Bremer getting it very wrong again. Amazing - he must be rooting for insurgency.
Farewell, Ronnie!
(Guardian cartoon)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/0,7371,1233866,00.html
my bad, spellchecker, my bad
If you need a laugh go to Juan Cole - great joke to lead off, and then a story about Bremer getting it very wrong again. Amazing - he must be rooting for insurgency
The Iraqi translator is priceless
Well, at least one good thing has come about in the wake of Capt. Ron's passing....
GOVERNOR "X" SETS ASIDE FRIDAY, JUNE 11, 2004 AS A DAY OF REVERENCE AND THANKSGIVING
Governor "X" Directs That All State Offices and Buildings Be Closed in Memory of Former President Ronald Reagan
Being a new state employee, looks like I get the day off. Well, I guess I can't say any more that Ronnie never did anything for me.
Kate, Nice to see you peeking from behind the curtain again.
Yes, human beings are so peculiar. Stunningly so.
(was worth repeating)
Totally OT, but here in Denver we have a new radio station -- www.kcuvradio.com -- it's webstreaming, and dialup friendly.
They call it Americana music -- whatever the hell that is. It favors obscure music, new and old -- blues, rock, folk, bluegrass, you name it, they play it.
Today's featured artist is Gram Parsons, of the Flying Burrito Brothers. Earlier today, they played a Dylan song from Nashville Skyline, and a remake of Marty Robbins Big Iron On His Hip (the Texas Ranger takes on, and guns down, the outlaw Texas Red -- made me think of the Swift Boat Tough Guy, taking on the Crawford Cheerleader)
Anyway -- NPR was wallowing in Gipper manure, so I switched.
Bob, way upthread, Billmon was an international-economics journalist for a mainstream US news organization for a while. My understanding is that he now works "for the man" doing analysis on similiar stuff.
Rememberinggiap: thanks for the capital letters! It really does help me read your worthful longer posts.
legion -- after tenet & co. gummed up bush felon enterprises unlimited (plame, abu graib filmwork, chalabi "lecterized," etc.), he probably thought he could do no more for his country and let the chips fall where they may. the over-emphasis on "family" in his resignation speech seemed telling, i.e., his CIA "family," the US department of smear 'em, burn 'em, whack 'em.
@beq:
No way! The last thing they'd want the world to know is that government assistance bailed out the Reagan family. Their fantasy of "rugged individualism" couldn't take such a down-beat.
@sukabi:
....they're mad and they're not going to take it anymore
When I hired out for the railroad years ago, an "old head" told me: "Remember, you too can be replaced by a button."
Ten years later I took a buyout. Ever notice that little red button on the back of trains? It is called a "marker" and has made cabooses obsolete.
Now I am not an "old head" but I've got enough experience now to morph that fellow's saying: "Remember, you too can be replaced by someone named Rashneeshpor."
(insert canned laughter here)
[Aside: Do you suppose canned laughter is capitalism's truest-to-form gift to the world? After all, capitalism has totally usurped our social relations and replaced them with service contracts. Shouldn't laughter itself be bought and sold OTC? (insert canned titters here)]
Barkeep, pass me that bucket will ya?...I'm gonna hurl
PAT ROBERTSON: Joining us now from New York to share his memories of President Reagan, is Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North. Colonel North was on Reagan's National Security Council staff where he served as an aide to Reagan's national security advisor, John Poindexter. Today, he is the host of the Fox News Channel's War Stories. Ollie, it's always a joy to welcome you back to The 700 Club. Thanks for taking time to be with us.
LT. COLONEL OLIVER NORTH: Pat, it is great to be with you, even though it is a very sad occasion.
ROBERTSON: Who is the Ronald Reagan that you knew, up close and personal?
NORTH: He was a man who had an absolute sense of who he was and who we are as, a people. He was a man who understood the quest for freedom that drives all of us. The good Lord put it in our souls. He was a man who wanted to offer that hope of freedom to others. He was a person who was absolutely committed to doing away with what he aptly described as 'the evil empire.' He [made] very, very difficult decisions in the 1980s. We forget that it was an entirely different world at that point. With tens of thousands of warheads pointed at this country by the Soviet Union and its proxies. Eleven different dictators in this hemisphere. And all that began to change when Ronald Wilson Reagan was president. It began to change in Grenada, October 1983. I was blessed to be at his side, in the midst of some of those very challenging moments of the 1980's. And watched him make those kinds of very tough, principled decisions, often when there was a contentious debate within his own cabinet over what was the right course of action. He had a remarkable ability to peel off the onion, as it were, and take exactly the right decision at the right time.
ROBERTSON: There is so much adulation for him now. But we forget. I talked to Paul Laxalt, who was his campaign manager. He said the papers were so biting in their criticism, he kept them from Reagan in his campaign in 1980. And the press portrayed him, as they do the current president, as being stupid and dumb and unengaged. How did you find him to be?
more (at your own risk)
It's been three days. Is Reagan still dead?
Pea, my husband, a software engineer, constantly worries about his job being outsourced to India or some other nation.
He's already got his revenge planned.
It's been three days. Is Reagan still dead?
Yes, but there has been smoke coming out of Generalissimo Franco's crypt.
Fish,
It's a federal holiday too. The markets will be closed as well.
It's been three days. Is Reagan still dead?
We have to wait until after Friday for a resurrection at least, don't we? :-p
"Ronald Reagan is still dead."
There will be no resurrection on the third day--that would have been yesterday.
I'm sorry but, the whole ressurection thing got me to giggling....and I usually DON'T giggle. Funny.
Thanks for your post, rememberinggiap.
i've wanted to hurl since the weekend...i don't own a tv, i don't read mainstream papers, i come to atrios, DU, billmon and others and i still can't f*cking get away from that evil old man. i was a (black) teen and punk in the 80s, so i doubt few surpass my dislike of the man. he personally ruined my family's business by taking away the tax credit for alternative energy...
but i'm also unhappy that i can't seem to find out what else is going on in dc this week. other than the hagiography that is. thanks to posters for the senate updates. i fear that little will happen to asscroft- he has no shame and i can't think of just who will force him out. he must have told bush that arabs aren't really people and thus don't deserve legal protection or something equally horrid.
Voodoo -- thanks for the J. Dean link. His stuff is damn good.
It seems very possible the leaker - or leakers, for two government sources were initially cited by columnist Robert Novak -- may have panicked, covered up his (or their) illegality, and in doing so, committed further crimes.
Has a nice ring to it, don't it "and in doing so, committed further crimes." (usually it's the attempt to cover-up the initial malefactions that the criminal charges ultimately entangles. (it may be part of the strategy of living systems and how we are able to "circumvent" the second law of thermodynamics, but sometimes, alas, it backfires; schade!))
Rememberinggiap: thanks for the capital letters! It really does help me read your worthful longer posts.
Now, if you could just discover punctuation!
As for ronnie being resurrected. Not going to happen. There is a good chance, however, that he may rise again as a radioactive brain eating zombie. Let's just hope they sealed that casket shut with industrial strength bolts.
Just in case, people should avoid the simi valley area on dark stormy nights.
Is there anyone else for whom Simi Valley connotes only an all-white jury for OJ Simpson?
Not like I'm passing judgment on the final verdict either way, mind you.
j
what fascism in germany differed from other totalitarian systems was the way it integrated civil society very early. The good german was very easy to construct because ideology articulated through education, media & film for example had in a sense already created that possibility
Civil society was suborned at every level - some may say as victim - but i see it as very willing participant in constructing nazi youth movement, nazi teachers (who with lawyers were far & away the most strong professional formations in the Party) womens groups, circle of nature lovers, naturists etc etc
Their participation at this civic level determined the depth of attack on all opposition. The extermination of that opposition was neither silent or hidden. Even as early as 1935 dachau was known & though it was not a death camp - the logical conclusion was indeed death.
It was of enormous importance for the Party to legalise everything & they used stealth & the willingness of that profession to take initiatives in the area. Extermination began as euthanasia - T4 - & its jurisprudence was very very, clear. Effectively to the end of the war - it was T4 - who effected the legal/medical justification for genocide
this apparatus was a modern, as hilberg pointed out - in many things like ghettoisation, even territorial imperatives there was a history - but in death - this tayloristic from of killing was new. it was invented.
What Leopold did in the Congo was just an extreme form of ruling class madness & greed - but what happened in Germany had deep links with other empires
The process of Nuremberg never confronted this exterminatory construct - it saw the crimes against humanity as an unfortunate extension of a crime of war
but not as an action in & of itself. Though there were doctory & lawyers 'trials' - the qustion of their knowing participation & indeed their part in the overall construct was never confronted
All the better, that these apparatus start to appear immediately after the war - & nowhere as clearly as america. It was happening in France & Italy but their massive communist parties paradoxically protected the democratic system
What i am suggesting was the cold war was a smoke screen to cover the genocidal impulse in relation to america & its enemies. Whether those enemies were external or internal. Taking what had been done by the einsatzgruppen & development in indo china & algeria you have the begiining of the death squads of latin america, phoenix & other programmes in vietnam & cointelpro in the u s itself. It was not sufficient to margianalise or even imprison your enemies. it was necessary to kill them
& to demand that civil society participate in that process no matter how indirectly - but in the concrete circumstances - the silency or the complicity - was a constructed consent. It was not accidental. It is a strategy that has as its logical consequence - what is happeniong in your country today. where all the so called constructs of ciil power - as al gore pointed out - have been demeaned into insignificance. & in their insignificance - the real crimes have begun in a way that i find profoundly frightening beacause the violence which is as rap brown once sd - as american as apple pie - is being articulated in a way unimaginable even to the militants of 20 years ago
the judicial/civil aparratus are the willing participants in a genocidal impulse which has as its basis - the real & actual destruction of the democratic impulse
hope i've been clearer
still steel
Simi Valley is a lilywhite, Republican domain to boot. It's a refuge for retired police officers from LAPD and Caucasians from the Valley who didn't want their kids attending LA schools with students of color (its best characteristic, in my opinion)
Michael -- thanks for the true legacy of Reagan, warmonger.
Lady Madge -- You got 'em right in the balls with
But there are people standing in lines for hours just to walk by a box wrapped in a flag? There are people, all ages, races, sexes, crying over his death?? People calling this a tragedy? He was 93!! Get over it! Most people can only hope to live to be that old, but this is tragic? What about the 500+ American soldiers who have died in Iraq?
You have exposed both their cowardice and chicanery. Have one on me.
Update: In all, 827 American troops have died in Iraq since the war began in March 2003. (Boston Globe 8 June 2004)
it is not for nothing that the strategy of the english was to criminalise the i.r.a. . this form of criminalisation, penalisation & extra judicial assasinations have their roots in the legalistic germany of 1933 - 1945
(what i meant to say in relation to Leopold was this was pure madness - which has its precedents with other tyrants - but the legalistic liquidation that constituted german jurisprudence - had deep & functional coonections to elites in europe & the united states)
& the co -opting of a class of people who might use the better angels as their guides have used their fear, their panic & their compulsions to create a genocidary practice where we shudder off the murders of millions of people in honduras el salvador colombia etc etc
vietnam, indopnesia, phillipines & of course now in the middle east <here it is legalistically clear that a westerners death !a la fallujah) is worth the death of thousand enemies
wherin lies another judicial precedent (not military) - from nazi germany - the punishment of entire populations for the crime of resistants
i think if we read kagans landmark study of the s s state we would xee many many worrying similarities
In total, the Iraq conflict has taken the lives of more than 800 American troops so far, and last week the Pentagon reported that the number wounded in action is approaching 4,700. (ContraCostaTimes.com 1 June 2004)
That's exactly what that flag-draped coffin made me think of: the photo of all those dead US soldiers in the hold of that plane. No talk of the privacy of the grieving family here!
The German woman who works in my office pointed out to me recently the big-bellied plane that makes a regular flight from IRaq to the US service hospital in this region, carrying the dead and wounded. It's the biggest thing in the sky, once a day, filled with less TV-worthy Americans.
A Tribute to Ronald Reagan -- Unnecessary War Deaths
details of deaths and causualties of Americans and Iraqis in Bush Felons' War
rememberinggiap:
Thank you for elucidating on your point regarding Cold War, ideology, etc. that I had asked you about.
I am a little muddled on these subjects myself, but it has occurred to me the strength of the desire to control that is indeed a part of civil society (or perhaps we could call it social culture) and highly rooted as you point out. I would even extend this to the use of drugs to control children's behavior or even to help them excel in school exams, etc. It is a strong force in the society, as much as we proclaim our independence and free thinking.
"[Bush's] War [of Aggression] may have killed 10,000 [Iraqi] civilians, researchers say" (source: antiwar.com)
what the hell? Is there nothing these re-thugs won't do for politicizing their wares?
You guys can stop worrying. It's all 'splained here
j,
no i think the example you use is not an accidental one - the destruction of difference - & the elimination of resistance - i think is connected - to the cruel use of ritalan, anti depressants or anti psychotics
i think all of us - indeed even as children know we have a right to wonderment - & that that empowerment is our individual power & sensuality. i think we understand that instinctively. & i it is destroyed until we wash in the culture of self congratulation & jingoism
because tthe state knows - we want more & will demand more - so in short it drives us crazy - even & perhaps especially as children
i work as a writer often in psychiatric hospitals & communities & i imagine 90% of the people are there from fear & panic & from being especially sensitive to their instincts
that is why resistance is so essential - it is a reconstruction of self
that is why our civic duty is so essential - it is a reconstruction of the community
rememberinggiap:
Thanks again for your comments.
As a Christian (not one of those group-thinkers, just an individual)I have to tell you that I believe that the model of the innocent man railroaded into crucifixion is the very picture, metaphorically, of the mob which despises the individual.
Of course, Rene Girard says the same thing, as we've touched on before.
I agree with you, my friend. We may not be under the same philosophical or ideological banner, but that is widow dressing. Perhaps we each choose our weapons and form of resistance. As is appropriate.
PS and I would agree, in my theological model, that it is indeed a construction of true selfhood.
PS and I would agree, in my theological model, that it is indeed a construction of true selfhood
... and true community
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0608nader08.html
The link above is an article from the AZ Republic. Worth reading. I wonder how many other states that it is happening in?
j
hope you meant window dressing instead of widow dressing
rememberinggiap:
LOL! maybe I was thinking about Reagan!
(but of course you're right)
Lady Madge,
I live in NJ and not to worry with respect to Kerry this November, as far as I can see. Bush stands zero chance of winning the state.
New Jersey: Kerry 51% Bush 39%
June 4, 2004--In New Jersey, the latest Rasmussen Reports survey finds Senator John F. Kerry with 51% of the vote and President George W. Bush with 39%.
These results are the same as the April Rasmussen Reports survey in New Jersey. Four years ago, Bush lost the state by sixteen points to Al Gore, 56% to 40%.
Sorry to come in a bit late with this, but I just wanted to say that it was immensely gratifying to watch Leahy and Biden rip Ashcroft a new a-hole on CSPAN this afternoon. I was astounded that CNN actually replayed some of it as well. I particularly enjoyed Ashcroft's response, smirking and rolling his eyes like a particularly bone-headed 8th-grader caught with cigarettes. I only hope the Dems follow up with the contempt charges, rather than letting the verbal vitriol stand as their only response.
J wrote
... and true community
it's not every homily one hears that sticks in one's ears
so there might have been something in the one i heard back in the late 90s in the jesuit parish in baltimore where spouse and self were married
the speaker, a priest from india, pointed out that one implication of "love one's neighbor as oneself" is that the neighbor is not simply a backdrop to one's personal salvation drama
indeed, the very implication of the word "commonwealth" - and i have the honor of having been born in the commonwealth of massachusetts - is that there is a "substance of 'we' feeling" - SOWF -as doris lessing put it
k. vonnegut, quoting his son m. vonnegut - "we are all here to help each other get through it - whatever 'it' is"
with best wishes and warm regards to my fellow cybercitizens
"God Bless America, Land that I Love.
Stand Beside Her, and Guide Her,
Through the Night with the Light from Above"
----------metaphorically speaking
@ rgiap - thx for your posts. good to remind the patrons of the true history of the US government. if only all the US citizens could clue into the truth and realize why their country is hated so much. keep it coming. the US weren't exactly great world citizens prior to WWII.
@ katestorm - keep the humour coming....all our souls can use a few more smiles :-)))
rememberinggiap, I was struck by your explication of how important the "legalization" effect was in the Nazification program. It seemed to me in the Ashcroft hearings (what little I saw of them and the transcripts and discussions that have been around since) that this is precisely the point he was trying to claim:
(1) The legal briefs (he refused to produce) established the point that the US had the right to use pressure, pain, torment, sensory deprivation, assaults on personal dignity, etc., up to a very carefully vague point that amounts to "if we don't call it torture then it isn't."
(2) But G. Bush and persons below him in the chain of command did not exercise that right, i.e. did not okay the use of "torture," because they are individually good persons and good Americans and just wouldn't do such a thing.
The unstated point seemed to be "we could have but we didn't, but we can if we want to badly enough and we might not be so nice next time, so watch your mouth there, buddy."
So much for the very idea of the rule of law vs. rule of man.
rememberinggiap; it sounds like you've read, at some point, The Rebel by Camus?
this apparatus was a modern, as hilberg pointed out - in many things like ghettoisation, even territorial imperatives there was a history - but in death - this tayloristic from of killing was new. it was invented.
Exactly.
...the speaker, a priest from india, pointed out that one implication of "love one's neighbor as oneself" is that the neighbor is not simply a backdrop to one's personal salvation drama mistah charley
OT, but that's exactly my problem with Mother Theresa. I've been to Calcutta and visited her hospice, which is situated right next to the Kali temple from which the city takes its name. Two temples dedicated to Death and The Dying right next to each other. It's a thought-provoking juxtaposition when you see it.
Whilst helping people die with dignity is of inestimable value, not least to the soul of the person doing the caring, so also is letting people live with dignity (and hope).
There should be a hospital there; a school; a chance for economic self-determination. Not just a haven for people to die and for others to save their own immortal souls by helping them die.
You know what really annoys the Hell out of me? The fact that Billmon must be slightly younger than I am, and yet he's got all these older frames of references that makes him comprehensible and appealing to lots of folks older than 50. If he was still in school when Reagan was coming to power, then he's about my age. And I can not recall bunches of stuff he does (Japanese puppet state of Manchucko?!). Here's to a really smart guy who's worthy of being read daily. No wonder you've got all the comments here! Keep up the good work...
...As a result, Reagan, while "often mocked abroad," has "become something of a cult" at home. "In this as in other things," they conclude, "what made America feel good about itself makes others deeply alarmed."
WaPo article