Random technical stuff

Demystifying the LibreOffice VCL Coordinate Pipeline

2026-04-14T03:21:00.000-07:00

I've been looking fairly closely at the coordinate system of VCL. I understood it fairly well, but as I have a Pro subscription of Gemini, I asked it to look at it for me to tell me how it thinks it works. Here is what it came up with:

If you’ve ever worked on a complex UI rendering engine, you know that placing a single pixel on the screen is rarely as simple as draw(x, y). A single coordinate actually exists in several different "realities" simultaneously.

In LibreOffice’s VCL (Visual Components Library), a coordinate has to travel through up to five distinct spatial dimensions to get from the mathematical purity of a document model to the physical LED pixels on your monitor.

If you get an offset wrong or apply a scaling factor out of order, your text disappears off the page, your borders render fuzzy, or your PDF exports break entirely. To fix these issues and modernize the rendering stack, we have to establish a strict, predictable pipeline.

Here is a deep dive into the five coordinate spaces of the LibreOffice VCL, and the math required to traverse them.

The 5 Coordinate Spaces

Think of these spaces as a series of nested Russian dolls. To get to the center (the document), you have to open them one by one.

1. Absolute Logic (Document Space)

This is the pure, mathematical space of the document itself.

Units: Defined by the MapMode (e.g., 1/100th of a millimeter for high-precision printing).
Origin (0,0): The absolute top-left corner of the page or document canvas.
The Variable: Represented simply as nX or nY.

2. Logic Units (Pipeline Space)

This is an intermediate staging area. The coordinate is still in logical document units, but it has been intentionally shifted.

The Shift: mnOutOffLogic.
Why it exists: This is an artificial shift applied to the document origin. It is frequently used when VCL needs to render a specific sub-section or "tile" of a document without actually changing the underlying coordinates of the objects themselves.

3. View Space (Viewport Space)

Welcome to the realm of pixels—specifically, pixels relative to the viewport (the scrollable area of the application).

The Transformation: To get here, we multiply the Logic Units by the DPI and Zoom scale (mfMapScX / mfMapScY).
The Shift: mnMapOfsX / mnMapOfsY (The Mapping Offset).
Why it exists: The origin (0,0) here is the top-left of your current scroll position. As you scroll down a Writer document, the mapping offset changes, shifting the view without altering the document.

4. Window Space (Client Space)

These are pixels relative to the GUI window frame itself.

The Shift: mnOutOffOrigX / mnOutOffOrigY (The VCL Pixel Offset).
Why it exists: The origin (0,0) is the top-left corner of the specific LibreOffice window or UI widget you are interacting with. VCL uses this offset internally to account for things like scrollbars, widget borders, or docking areas inside a window. This is the coordinate space where your mouse click events natively arrive.

5. Device Space (Physical Space)

The final destination. These are absolute pixels mapped to your physical hardware.

The Shift: mnOutOffX / mnOutOffY (The Screen Origin).
Why it exists: The origin (0,0) is the top-left corner of your physical monitor. This is the coordinate system that the underlying operating system graphics APIs (like CoreGraphics on macOS, Cairo on Linux, or GDI/DirectWrite on Windows) require to actually illuminate a pixel on your screen.

The Mathematical Pipeline

To safely traverse these spaces without causing "double-subtraction" bugs or off-by-one pixel errors, we chain the transitions together in a strict sequence.

Here is the Forward Path (converting a Document coordinate to a Physical Screen pixel):

Absolute → Logic Units: Add the logical offset.
LogicUnits = nX + mnOutOffLogicX
Logic Units → View: Apply the zoom scale, then add the scroll offset.
View = (LogicUnits * mfMapScX) + mnMapOfsX
View → Window: Add the internal VCL widget offset.
Window = View + mnOutOffOrigX
Window → Device: Add the physical screen position.
Device = Window + mnOutOffX

When handling a mouse click, we run this exact pipeline in reverse (The Inverse Path), carefully subtracting the offsets and dividing by the scale to figure out exactly which 1/100th of a millimeter the user clicked on.

Why Sub-Pixel Accuracy Matters

Historically, rendering engines used integer math (tools::Long) for these transitions. If a line ended up at pixel 10.7, it was truncated to 10. For basic UI elements, this was fine.

However, modern graphics rely heavily on anti-aliasing (B2D rendering) and high-fidelity vector exports (PDFs). If you truncate a coordinate too early in the pipeline, you lose the fractional data. When you eventually scale that truncated coordinate back up, that tiny fractional loss multiplies into massive visual artifacts—lines appear to "shimmer" when scrolling, or text glyphs collide with each other.

By upgrading this pipeline to handle high-precision double math at every stage (Sub-Pixel stages), LibreOffice can pass mathematically perfect coordinates to the OS-level drawing APIs, ensuring that your documents look perfectly crisp at any zoom level.

<!DOCTYPE html>
<html lang="en">
<head>
    <meta charset="UTF-8">
    <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0">
    <title>VCL Coordinate Space Visualizer</title>
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<body>

<div id="desktop">
    <div id="desktop-label">Device Space (Monitor)</div>

<div id="controls">
        <div class="hud-title">Coordinate Pipeline Variables</div>
        <div class="control-header">UI Layout (Chrome)</div>
        <div class="control-group"><label>Show Sidebar:</label><input type="checkbox" id="check-sidebar"></div>
        <div class="control-group"><label>Show Status Bar:</label><input type="checkbox" id="check-statusbar"></div>
        <div class="control-header">Device <-> Window (Physical)</div>
        <div class="control-group"><label>Offset X:</label><input type="range" id="slider-dev-x" min="0" max="1000" value="360"></div>
        <div class="control-group"><label>Offset Y:</label><input type="range" id="slider-dev-y" min="0" max="800" value="100"></div>
        <div class="control-header">Total Window Bounds</div>
        <div class="control-group"><label>Total Width:</label><input type="range" id="slider-win-w" min="300" max="1500" value="800"></div>
        <div class="control-group"><label>Total Height:</label><input type="range" id="slider-win-h" min="200" max="1000" value="600"></div>
        <div class="control-header">Window <-> View (Scroll)</div>
        <div class="control-group"><label>Offset X:</label><input type="range" id="slider-win-x" min="-1200" max="0" value="0"></div>
        <div class="control-group"><label>Offset Y:</label><input type="range" id="slider-win-y" min="-1400" max="0" value="0"></div>
        <div class="control-header">View <-> Logic (MapMode)</div>
        <div class="control-group"><label>Scale Factor:</label><input type="range" id="slider-scale" min="0.5" max="3.0" step="0.1" value="1.5"></div>
        <div class="control-header">Logic <-> Absolute Logic</div>
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<div id="hud">
        <div class="hud-title">VCL Internal State (CoordinateMapper)</div>
        Output Bounds (mnOutWidth) : <span id="val-out-w" class="hud-value">800</span> px<br>
        Output Bounds (mnOutHeight): <span id="val-out-h" class="hud-value">600</span> px<br><br>
        <div class="hud-title">VCL Target Point Pipeline</div>
        <div class="hud-grid">
            <span>1. Absolute Logic Space:</span> <span id="val-abs" class="hud-value">(500, 500)</span>
            <span>  + Logic<->Abs Offset:</span> <span id="val-abs-offset" style="color:#666">(0, 0)</span>
            <span>2. Logic Space:</span> <span id="val-logic" class="hud-value">(500, 500)</span>
            <span>  * View<->Logic Scale:</span> <span id="val-scale-hud" style="color:#666">1.5x</span>
            <span>3. View Space:</span> <span id="val-view" class="hud-value">(750, 750)</span>
            <span>  + Window<->View Offset:</span> <span id="val-win-offset" style="color:#666">(0, 0)</span>
            <span>4. Window Units:</span> <span id="val-window" class="hud-value">(750, 750)</span>
            <span>  + Device<->Window Offset:</span> <span id="val-dev-offset" style="color:#666">(0, 0)</span>
            <span>5. Device Pixels:</span> <span id="val-device" class="hud-value">(0, 0)</span>
        </div>
    </div>

<div id="vcl-window">
        <div id="title-bar">VCL Window (Drag Me)</div>
        <div id="middle-row">
            <div id="viewport">
                <canvas id="document-canvas" width="2500" height="2500"></canvas>
            </div>
            <div id="sidebar">
                <strong>Properties</strong><hr><p>Character<br>Paragraph<br>Area</p>
                <strong>Gallery</strong><hr><p>Arrows<br>Flowchart<br>Icons</p>
            </div>
        </div>
        <div id="status-bar">
            Page 1 of 1  |  0 words  |  Default Style  |  English (Australia)
        </div>
        <div id="resize-handle"></div>
    </div>
</div>

checkSidebar.addEventListener('change', (e) => { sidebar.style.display = e.target.checked ? 'block' : 'none'; updateMetrics(); });
    checkStatusbar.addEventListener('change', (e) => { statusbar.style.display = e.target.checked ? 'block' : 'none'; updateMetrics(); });
    sliderDevX.addEventListener('input', (e) => { vclWindow.style.left = e.target.value + 'px'; updateMetrics(); });
    sliderDevY.addEventListener('input', (e) => { vclWindow.style.top = e.target.value + 'px'; updateMetrics(); });
    sliderWinW.addEventListener('input', (e) => { vclWindow.style.width = e.target.value + 'px'; updateMetrics(); });
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    sliderWinY.addEventListener('input', (e) => { viewport.scrollTop = -e.target.value; updateMetrics(); });
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    sliderAbsY.addEventListener('input', (e) => { vclState.logicToAbsY = parseInt(e.target.value); drawChart(); updateMetrics(); });

The mess that is the VCL

2024-11-29T02:48:00.006-08:00

Let me count the ways, in no particular order and in no way exhaustive:

OutputDevice is the base class for printing, windowing and PDFs. It doesn't just do output.
OutputDevice has GetOutDevType() because the base class needs to know what child class is using it. Ugh.
OutputDevice drawing primitives not only draw, but they record a metafile. There are literally functions that turn off drawing and just let it record the metafile. I made an attempt at seperating the concerns, but it got nowhere.
VCL relies on DrawingLayer and DrawingLayer relies on the VCL.
There is a concept of a VirtualDevice, which is derived from OutputDevice. VirtualDevice does a bunch of things, but one of which is alpha-handling. In OutputDevice, there is a member which is a VirtualDevice. Each drawing function in Outputdevice calls upon the correlated drawing function in this member VirtualDevice.
Bitmaps don't get modified via the Bitmap class. Instead, you have to use BitmapInfoAccess, BitmapReadAccess and BitmapWriteAccess. I'm still puzzling out why these are seperate classes.
Bitmaps are transformed in SalGraphics indirectly via OutputDevice. Except when they aren't, in which case it fails, whereby OutputDevice tries an alternative way via SalGraphics. Otherwise, it tries its own poor man approach at drawing the bitmap. Consequently, often times you bypass the platform optimized ways of doing things, because its not been implemented.
Fonts are lazy loaded from OutputDevice. There is no central font manager. To get the fonts, you have to go through SalGraphics. To get a SalGraphics, you need to initialize a lot of stuff not related to fonts.
Font caching is done from OutputDevice. Lazily. Font data is updated for all frames. Frames are a concept needed for Windows. Frames are not a concept needed by Printers and VirtualDevices, or even PDFs. Note that Printers, VirtualDevices and PDFs all inherit from OutputDevice.
OutputDevice converts between "logical" units and display units. It's a nightmare to know what each function needs what sort of units. For the mapping between units, I refer you to vcl/source/gdi/mapmod.cxx and vcl/source/outdev/map.cxx
There is tools and basegfx. They do the same thing, though basegfx is considerably better written. You have Size and B2DSize, Point and B2DPoint, Polygon and B2DPolygon, PolyPolygon and B2DPolyPolygon. OutputDevice must handle it all.
Gradient handling is sort of half baked in OutputDevice, much of gradient handling is done in other modules.
Font substitution is truly, truly weird. PhysicalFontSelect::FindFontFamilyByAttributes() has clearly got a bug in it - (e.g. ImplFontAttrs::None == ((nSearchType ^ nMatchType) & ImplFontAttrs::Rounded an XOR?) and it is a truly strange weighting scheme. Yes, I did try to untangle that beast with proper unit tests, but gave up after being told I was being unreasonable.
There is VCL, canvas, cppcanvas and drawinglayer. drawinglayer is way better than VCL, but we are stuck with VCL for everything.
Consider the following Window hierarchy: WorkWindow inherits from SystemWindow, which inherits from Window. Window holds an OutputDevice to do stuff. WindowOutputDevice derives from OutputDevice. This is needed because OutputDevice often needs to know if it is doing Window operations, via WindowOutputDevice. Try untangling this in your head.
Text layout is its own beast, and has its own set of classes. A lot of text layout is worked out in OutputDevice.

Text layout is done via OutputDevice::ImplLayout(). I present to you the ImplLayout function signature:

    std::unique_ptr<SalLayout> ImplLayout(
        const OUString&, sal_Int32 nIndex, sal_Int32 nLen, const Point& rLogicPos = Point(0, 0),
        tools::Long nLogicWidth = 0, KernArraySpan aKernArray = KernArraySpan(),
        std::span<const sal_Bool> pKashidaArray = {}, SalLayoutFlags flags = SalLayoutFlags::NONE,
        vcl::text::TextLayoutCache const* = nullptr, const SalLayoutGlyphs* pGlyphs = nullptr,
        std::optional<sal_Int32> nDrawOriginCluster = std::nullopt,
        std::optional<sal_Int32> nDrawMinCharPos = std::nullopt,
        std::optional<sal_Int32> nDrawEndCharPos = std::nullopt) const;

Separating metafile processing from rendering in OutputDevice

2021-09-08T01:30:00.002-07:00

The OutputDevice class is what we use for rendering a whole host of different things, and other classes inherit from it to do their rendering. Notably a little while ago Noel Grandin separated OutputDevice from Window, which is a huge boon for the codebase!

In an attempt to further separate the concerns of OutputDevice, I noticed a long time ago that not only does it do rendering, but it records actions in a metafile. These are two related and yet quite separate things. My goal is to shift out the rendering into a RenderContext class. I have already got a PoC on GitHub, which has already done much of the work, albeit in a messier way (basically it was a test to see if this was even feasible).

Obviously migrating rendering functionality into its own class is not something to take lightly, so I have been writing smaller patches that test out the code. When I say "small", I really mean this. Currently I am testing out a bunch of code that sets state in OutputDevice, which can be found in the outdevstate topic branch in gerrit.

Along with test the state functions of OutputDevice, I am also adding some tests to the bitmap functionality of OutputDevice. I recently landed a patch to move GetDownsampledBitmap() out of OutputDevice and into BitmapTools.cxx because it really didn't need to completely rely on OutputDevice. This bit of code will hopefully one day migrate it's way into the VCL backend modules. You can monitor the progress I'm making via the bitmap topic branch in gerrit.

I have to say that writing tests is not always easy. Often there is no easy way of accessing the functions, especially if they are private, but luckily most of the functions are protected so I can at least write a mock class to expose these functions without having to modify the code.

Currently I have the following topic branches:

Drawing in OutputDevice

2019-11-13T00:11:00.002-08:00

For a long time now I have noticed that OutputDevice is a class that is tightly coupled to drawing primitives such a pixels, lines, rectangles, etc. To draw new primitives in OutputDevice, you need to change the interface by adding another function, often you need to add new private functions, etc.

I have never been entirely comfortable with this - I believe that we shouldn't vary the OutputDevice class, but instead the functionality should be implemented in a command pattern. In a command pattern, you use an object to encapsulate the functionality used to perform an action. What this means is that OutputDevice no longer needs to know how to directly draw a line, pixel, rectangle or any other primitive we throw at it - this is all done in the command object. I call these OutputDevice Drawables. It turns out, I find it easier to test a command object.

In fact, the more I rewrote code to use the command pattern, the more I found that we were using a particular sequence of actions in most of our drawing functions:

Add action to GDI metafile
Can we draw? No - exit
Initialize the clipping region if possible
Initialize the object's color
Initialize the object's fill color
Acquire the SalGraphics instance
Do the actual drawing!
Paint alpha virtual device

When I realised this, I decided to follow the principle of encapsulating what was varying - point 7 - the actual drawing. Everything else was the same - at least so I initially thought. It turns out this is not the case all the time, so I allowed two things - a function that can be overridden that tells the Drawable that the step should be bypassed, and in the case where we need to through all this scaffolding out the window a way of bypassing it entirely. However, this is an example of a template method pattern.

You can see the base work for this in a gerrit patch I submitted today. To use the actually command pattern is very easy: if there is not an existing function like DrawPixel in OutputDevice, you just have to invoke the command object via OutputDevice::Draw(Drawable* pDrawable). An example can be found in the unit test.

To implement a new command, you just derive from Drawable - the simplest Drawable class you can define only needs a constructor with the parameters you would normally send to a Draw command in OutputDevice (e.g. PixelDrawable only needs a Point sent to the constructor), and you implement the actually drawing in DrawCommand(OutputDevice* pRenderContext).

A few things I found helped me when I created Drawables - I quite like passing parameters to functions, I'm not a huge fan of a lot of state in the class. Drawables work because they essentially work by calling the Execute function, this handles all the basic drawing for you on the state you set in the constructor. I have found in some patches that I have on github that the functionality is somewhat complex, for this I have extract function to simplify test and readability of the code (an example of this is GradientDrawable - see GradientDrawable.cxx and GradientDrawableHelper.cxx).

Netflix don't know their own security processes

2018-02-11T03:07:00.002-08:00

On the 9th February, unbeknownst to me, my wife accidentally typed in the wrong password several times into Netflix.

I then got an email from Netflix:

Password reset required

Dear CHRISTOPHER,

We’ve detected a suspicious sign-in to your Netflix account. Just to be safe we've reset your password and you’ll need to set a new one.

SET A NEW PASSWORD

Use the button above or type www.netflix.com into your browser, click on “sign in”, and then click “forgot your email or password.” Follow the instructions to set a new password.

If you have any questions we are here to help. Visit the Help Center for more info or contact us.

–The Netflix Team

I spoke to 4 seperate people, and they all say that this is a "phishing email" as there is no way that Netflix can ever reset the password from their end - apparently only customers can initiate password resets.

I got pretty annoyed as I take security fairly seriously, and if someone had compromised my account, I'd like to know more about it. So I test what I'm being told by Customer Service, and find the following link:

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/56461

This reads:

We will occasionally email our members encouraging them to change their account passwords as a precautionary measure. These emails are usually sent in response to username and password breaches at other companies, phishing schemes, observed suspicious account behavior, or malware attacks.

In these instances, we will notify you that we have reset your password; however, some of the devices you own may stay signed in for your convenience. You will have the option to automatically sign out of all devices when you set up a new password. If you used the same password for any other online sites, we recommend that you also change your password for those accounts.

So the last guy I speak to talks over the top of me, and says "you just don't get it". So I ask for a supervisor. I wait for 40 minutes (I'm quite a determined guy) and whilst I'm waiting I go online. The following is the chat transcript

tl;dr basically "Jason" tells me that they never initiate password resets and that I'm looking at a phishing email (which I'm not, and I prove by sending him the message headers), that I'm reading the Netflix article "out of context" (???), and he will ask to have it updated.

Your issue is: rude and inaccurate customer service

You are now chatting with: Jason

You

hi Jason

Netflix Jason

Hi! :)

Netflix Jason

I'm sorry to hear that.

You

I'm on the phone right now

Netflix Jason

On behalf of Netflix please forgive us for that experience.

You

four customer service reps have now told me it is impossible for me to get an email saying due to suspicious activity Netflix reset my password

You

one of them was a supervisor

Netflix Jason

I just hope a resolution was provided for the concern you're calling about.

You

who just talked over the top of me, didn't know what he was talking about and accused me "you just don't get it"

You

no, I'm still on the line!

You

what, precisely, don't I get?

You

they insisted it must have come from "hackers" or someone hit the reset password link

You

and it didn't

You

is this the sort of customer service Netflix gives?

You

that's literally four reps who don't believe Netflix can change my password

You

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/56461

Netflix Jason

Can you tell me exactly what happened?

You

I even got the last guy to read it, and he STILL didn't believe this could happen

Netflix Jason

Actually we can't.

Netflix Jason

We don't have access.

You

actually, you can't but Netflix can

Netflix Jason

We can only send you a reset link.

You

the email is "Dear CHRISTOPHER,
We’ve detected a suspicious sign-in to your Netflix account. Just to be safe we've reset your password and you’ll need to set a new one."

You

so yes, Netflix can and will reset passwords

Netflix Jason

We don't even have your passwords in our system.

You

it even says so on your site:

Netflix Jason

We don't keep records of passwords.

You

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/56461

Netflix Jason

That notification is totally taken out of context.

You

then why did Netflix send me an email telling me you had reset my password?

You

and sure enough, my password was reset

Netflix Jason

The customer will have to initiate the password change.

You

wrong

You

no, read that article on the Netflix website again!

Netflix Jason

Then the system or representative will send a link to your email so that you can change the password.

You

it says "In these instances, we will notify you that we have reset your password"

You

in other words, Netflix resets the password

Netflix Jason

We can't really.

You

can you explain how your own website says that?

You

yeah, then why does your own website say that Netflix can reset my password?

You

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/56461

You

have you read this?

Netflix Jason

Again it's been taken out of context.

You

how?

You

I got an email that my password has been reset

Netflix Jason

If you want I will provide feed back for you so that it can be revised.

You

and indeed, my password had been reset

You

it doesn't need to be revised!

You

that's what actually happened!

You

why did I get that email then?

Netflix Jason

Look, you made contact. You need assistance. I'm telling you how it works.

Netflix Jason

Then let's figure it out.

You

OK, if you are telling me how it works, then can you explain the email I received?

Netflix Jason

Have you lost access to your Netflix?

You

the email says:

You

"Password reset required
Dear CHRISTOPHER,
We’ve detected a suspicious sign-in to your Netflix account. Just to be safe we've reset your password and you’ll need to set a new one.
SET A NEW PASSWORD
Use the button above or type www.netflix.com into your browser, click on “sign in”, and then click “forgot your email or password.” Follow the instructions to set a new password.
If you have any questions we are here to help. Visit the Help Center for more info or contact us.
–The Netflix Team"

You

how is that "out of context"?

Netflix Jason

Ok this is clearly a phishing email.

Netflix Jason

We do not send anything like that.

Netflix Jason

Test your account.

Netflix Jason

SIGN OUT then SIGN IN. See if you have lost access.

You

nope, mail headers show it's from Netflix

You

Delivered-To: <my email address>
Received: by 10.74.131.83 with SMTP id q19csp1869842oog;
Thu, 8 Feb 2018 13:11:40 -0800 (PST)
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x227dnJIPEgqm2ezeY/9ZE3fAMeUmiYW42h0V/T2YOyFJMEzfnNE2+rIv9y58XO4qxaPrB4wd
X-Received: by 10.55.214.65 with SMTP id t62mr536593qki.351.1518124300356;
Thu, 08 Feb 2018 13:11:40 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1518124300; cv=none;
d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
b=xvZttTVW9UR+sy6tboHlwcnWhwgPIkCwg/pzu7Jku2nT0cVkX4OVqXHNAXbY79Ld1y
6xDIePeWfKnVHid+uT2ww8VPi1M4zzVleb8ofeyIcWRN3c8ySScC77jejsAUX4NbYDTK
BUi4c+fHTkTvIgixnLNTHZE3S4jeyrdFsJsxX/gadhzvf4Pt1p72HIngPAh/iwB056rZ
F2a+2pNzfRbe0XWy78rcs1x/jvjqGnRKz4CHg3blVgBkgPi8ocKh/8F+7futS2QLsdYi
C2HuvUfXoE6hw3GJLfWAP/ltJini861Xv/Wdf0IDsqC17bPbb6UXDXZCd89EpyuvvFV8
UjbA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
h=feedback-id:list-unsubscribe:precedence:mime-version:subject
:message-id:to:sender:from:date:dkim-signature:dkim-signature
:arc-authentication-results;
bh=oOAy3CiUxh+PbdPyEubLiydYu/fgIyh2XEBmyx49D7A=;
b=TCbuJ7coONxCi5puG0qI7B7SGcR9FywSxGm5b03YqPJ7WppaTQNTT/VOu89q/FYqcu
/8mr50OFwA2B1p9mzlJiAJvc1H44bs40RGqykoLb4wH/rTuQXl6YQLArlU5pNkuclK1v
6aCCH/Zn8Cthpf4MaR4k8wLuz18NX8gwfSaOvm6NS8sRcDvfyNEZwWDD4wfvA8ui7xbZ
o7N2OQEeu50VH9e0KE9AP+/iYVndI0pb3o+GnPGgnB7kHoNoiy95qw4Y8r0P4BrSeF7o
7Lgh0DBB9RsIbh/vJgkw4t966fqn4C5JfsVmrzHTpVIusgzESqUHVNr9r2tr0K82lFAT
Xf2A==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@netflix.com header.s=wsh2ycm5iultkbdysii4ijqi22uurzvv header.b=Ju48Kj89;
dkim=pass [non-Netflix link blocked]header.s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono header.b=avCLQKcv;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of 010001617742739c-0daddaa6-5755-4638-ba13-3efbdad23cf8-000000@mailer.netflix.com designates 54.240.14.187 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=010001617742739c-0daddaa6-5755-4638-ba13-3efbdad23cf8-000000@mailer.netflix.com;
dmarc=pass (p=REJECT sp=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=netflix.com
Return-Path: <010001617742739c-0daddaa6-5755-4638-ba13-3efbdad23cf8-000000@mailer.netflix.com>
Received: from [non-Netflix link blocked] [non-Netflix link blocked] [54.240.14.187])
by [non-Netflix link blocked] with ESMTPS id r6si57474qkb.470.2018.02.08.13.11.39
for
(version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128);
Thu, 08 Feb 2018 13:11:40 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of 010001617742739c-0daddaa6-5755-4638-ba13-3efbdad23cf8-000000@mailer.netflix.com designates 54.240.14.187 as permitted sender) client-ip=54.240.14.187;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@netflix.com header.s=wsh2ycm5iultkbdysii4ijqi22uurzvv header.b=Ju48Kj89;
dkim=pass [non-Netflix link blocked]header.s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono header.b=avCLQKcv;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of 010001617742739c-0daddaa6-5755-4638-ba13-3efbdad23cf8-000000@mailer.netflix.com designates 54.240.14.187 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=010001617742739c-0daddaa6-5755-4638-ba13-3efbdad23cf8-000000@mailer.netflix.com;
dmarc=pass (p=REJECT sp=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=netflix.com
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple;
s=wsh2ycm5iultkbdysii4ijqi22uurzvv; d=netflix.com; t=1518124299;
i=@mailer.netflix.com;
h=Date:From:Sender:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Type:List-Unsubscribe;
bh=rlAIU4r//XJoOnUVbGdtJyKyUSgzLS4h9fyRpIYRwDM=;
b=Ju48Kj89riXzwTCY5qLR2VOna/nF3YRgMbFfoTZBHuwohzdT4A0GnPqbKPCx7S8d
mVmLmB/SDY7JbBaOa77Zi4P6BF7m/J9a4viHA2J0jYKaI+P0S3pe15ArXAAU0uAEsux
l711QyDjDiEwiIDhKc4kFgf50L1DiXmtk/t/VyaI=
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple;
s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1518124299;
h=Date:From:Sender:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Type:List-Unsubscribe:Feedback-ID;
bh=rlAIU4r//XJoOnUVbGdtJyKyUSgzLS4h9fyRpIYRwDM=;
b=avCLQKcv9FVTs3xlGcfVJ4f88Nta3VGcn6ToUEDzfW9qpkcWpsAtD73vpIA8DoYZ
Dr8qab2YVZORQGiyVv9isM6U5mGDra0mgWxxBgWS/hZreVsUrCCTOS2uVdgS3Q+j8s0
0MjI648Nhsnr6tBhEcoNdDMK5hS2LO1bGCgSzwyE=
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 21:11:39 +0000
From: Netflix
Sender: Netflix
To: <my email address>
Message-ID: <010001617742739c-0daddaa6-5755-4638-ba13-3efbdad23cf8-000000@email.amazonses.com>
Subject: Netflix password reset required
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_Part_132692_67010129.1518124299164"
X-To: <my email address>
Precedence: bulk
X-AppInfo: Netflix Mercury s.54d3d7d.2535
X-ProcEnc: BQAtAAEBEPvcm7MGMcMv7UifU3LjkkEQd/J3ASn5wkGSWcFnHH2ZTQ==
X-MailingID: mercury::LR::12699::50E29A9468B8D6EDBCE02367FACF7DCD64529BF0::<1617742739C@netflix.com>
X-GroupId: 4
X-localeCountry: en::AU
X-ProcInfo: TREADST

Netflix Jason

You can't possibly trust that.

Netflix Jason

You've already spoken to several Netflix experts.

You

yeah, I can actually, Gmail passed this

You

you have DKIM and SPF setup

You

that's definitely from you

Netflix Jason

Why would we ask you to reset the password?

You

how do I escalate this?

Netflix Jason

Forward it to phishing@netflix.com

You

I've been on this phone call for 35 minutes now

Netflix Jason

They were providing you the correct info.

Netflix Jason

Someone is trying to take over your account.

Netflix Jason

Trapping you to reset your password.

Netflix Jason

That is clearly not our process.

You

how do I get a technical person who knows what they are talking about?

Netflix Jason

You're chatting with one.

Netflix Jason

You've spoken to others as well.

You

so to be clear, you have an article that says that security emails will be sent out that passwords are reset

You

I've given you the headers, which show that it's come from your network

You

there is no way to spoof those headers

Netflix Jason

Those are notifications once you have reset the password.

You

do you know what DKIM actually is?

You

no, it's not!

Netflix Jason

Can you answer this question for me.

You

it's a notification that Netflix reset that password

You

sure

Netflix Jason

Have you tried to SIGN OUT then SIGN IN?

You

I reset the password!

You

from Netflix's site!

Netflix Jason

Did you get an error message that your password is wrong?

You

the old password no longer worked!

You

yes!

You

no, that the username and password WAS wrong

You

it had indeed been reset

Netflix Jason

Then it's correct someone took over your account.

Netflix Jason

You can see it.

You

and then they sent me an email that they had detected suspicious activity

Netflix Jason

You'll be able to see RECENT ACCOUNT ACCESS.

Netflix Jason

You'll see the IP ADDRESS, LOCATION, DEVICE. Date and TIME.

Netflix Jason

Did you check that out?

Netflix Jason

I see that you're already speaking to someone on the phone, do you still need me on this line?

You

they are literally contradicting you right now

Netflix Jason

Ok.

Netflix Jason

Anything else that I can do for you today? :)

You

someone will be having a word with you soon

Netflix Jason

That's alright.

Netflix Jason

By the way I sent you a link to our Help Center just for your reference. It's like our own version of Google where you can just type keywords of your inquiries or even error codes and it will show you exactly what needs to be done!

Netflix Jason

Oh, for future reference please check this link. Please
Click Here . Just a VERY important tip to save your time in the future, As long as you see that the servers are up on that link that means that the issue can be resolved by calling either your Internet service provider or you device manufacturer. I just want to make sure that you're fully equipped after this chat and I want to be able to still help out i:)

Netflix Jason

and if you want to check on updates to our NEW movie releases and feature updates please follow us on FACEBOOK or TWITTER. You can also chat with us real time on those sites. :)

Netflix Jason

It's been a pleasure chatting with you, have a good one! CHEERS! :)

Comprehensive logging in Windows Update in Windows 7

2017-01-03T16:59:00.000-08:00

If you want to turn on verbose logging for Windows Update and the Microsoft Installer, then you could follow KB 2545723 - How to Enable Microsoft Installer logging and Verbose logging to gather additional troubleshooting Information... or if you are masochistic enough then you can copy the following into a .reg file, then open this to import it into your registry:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace]
"Level"=dword:00000004
"Flags"=dword:00000007

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\Agent]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\ARP]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\AU]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\AUClnt]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\CDM]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\CltUI]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\Cmpress]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\COMAPI]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\CPL]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\DnldMgr]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\Driver]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\DtaStor]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\EEHndlr]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\Handler]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\Inv]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\Misc]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\OfflSnc]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\Parser]
"Level"=dword:00000004
"Flags"=dword:000000ff

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\Perf,]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\PT]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\Report]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\Services]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\Setup]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\Shutdwn]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\Trace]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\TraceTestMain]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\TraceTestThreads]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\WUApp]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\WuRedir]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace\WUWeb]
"Flags"=dword:000000ff
"Level"=dword:00000004

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Installer]
"Logging"="voicewarmupx"
"Debug"=dword:00000007

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Trace]
"Flags"=dword:00000016
"Level"=dword:00000004

Every 200MB or so, it truncates the file and starts again, so you will also need to open Powershell and run the following:

Get-Content -Path "C:\Windows\WindowsUpdate.log" -Wait > "C:\output\giganticlogfile.log"

#wikipedia-en-unblock

2016-05-21T01:57:00.000-07:00

[2016-05-19T08:30:23+1000] chris_wot (~chris_wot@203-217-39-91.dyn.iinet.net.au) joined the channel
[2016-05-19T08:30:23+1000] Topic is This is the channel for requesting a block review on the English Wikipedia | For help, type !admin followed by your question - we will see it | Unblock discussion logs may be published | If you are not here to request an unblock for yourself, please leave the channel | UTRS: http://utrs.wmflabs.org | If an admin declines your appeal, please do not persist in asking.
[2016-05-19T08:30:23+1000] Set by Snowolf on 16 December 2014 at 4:32:25 AM AEDT
[2016-05-19T08:30:23+1000] -ChanServ- Unblock discussion logs may be published. If you are not here to request an unblock for your account or IP address, please *do not idle* here.
[2016-05-19T08:30:23+1000] Website is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Appealing_a_block
[2016-05-19T08:30:24+1000] Mode is +CFcgjntz 5:60
[2016-05-19T08:30:36+1000] hello, it's Ta bu shi da yu here
[2016-05-19T08:30:51+1000] would someone please be will to have a chat about my block please?
[2016-05-19T08:32:00+1000] <+Huon> hello chris_wot
[2016-05-19T08:33:12+1000] hey
[2016-05-19T08:33:46+1000] I'd like to get a clear understanding of the reason for the indefinite block
[2016-05-19T08:33:53+1000] <+Huon> what's the blocked account?
[2016-05-19T08:33:55+1000] the username is User:Letsbefiends
[2016-05-19T08:34:06+1000] <+Huon> Ta bu shi da yu isn't blocked
[2016-05-19T08:34:19+1000] <+Huon> neither is the account that talk page redirects to
[2016-05-19T08:34:27+1000] Huon - indeed, but as I say, I'm better known as Ta bu shi da yu
[2016-05-19T08:34:41+1000] However, the account is definitely Letsbefiends
[2016-05-19T08:35:00+1000] Because I no longer use Ta bu shi da yu
[2016-05-19T08:35:14+1000] Nor do I use Tbsdy lives
[2016-05-19T08:35:45+1000] I hope that's not a problem
[2016-05-19T08:36:06+1000] <+Huon> chris_wot, looking, one moment...
[2016-05-19T08:36:17+1000] thanks
[2016-05-19T08:37:58+1000] just so you know, I'm still feeling a little fragile, so if you could be gentle with me, I'd really appreciate it
[2016-05-19T08:38:21+1000] also: I'm not actually asking for a lift of the block
[2016-05-19T08:38:28+1000] I just want to understand the reasoning
[2016-05-19T08:40:42+1000] <+Huon> you also edited as IP 203.217.39.91, didn't you?
[2016-05-19T08:43:27+1000] <+Huon> chris_wot, hello?
[2016-05-19T08:43:58+1000] Huon - only after I rage quit and scambled my password
[2016-05-19T08:44:32+1000] You will also see I edited under a different IP address, but that's only because I switched to using my mobile phone
[2016-05-19T08:45:01+1000] if you check my contributions you'll see that there is no overlap
[2016-05-19T08:45:16+1000] <+Huon> well, the admin blocked that IP address for edit-warring and BLP violations, and blocked the account because it's the same person
[2016-05-19T08:45:17+1000] it's also the reason I've not responded on my talk page
[2016-05-19T08:46:36+1000] Huon, I just want to clarify - I understand the edit warring, but can I have the BLP violation explained to me a bit more?
[2016-05-19T08:47:09+1000] like I say, I'm not requesting an unblock - it's irrelevant anyway as I scrambled the password
[2016-05-19T08:47:37+1000] <+Huon> ok, so what exactly is the question? Why the IP was blocked, or why the block was extended to the account?
[2016-05-19T08:48:27+1000] what the BLP violations were
[2016-05-19T08:48:46+1000] also: you have blocked a mobile IP address - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/1.129.97.101
[2016-05-19T08:49:01+1000] that's probably causing a lot of Telstra subscribers problems with editing
[2016-05-19T08:49:11+1000] <+Huon> I haven't looked at the content it felt, but it seems it was an amalgamation of primary sources, which would violate WP:BLPPRIMARY
[2016-05-19T08:49:38+1000] <+Huon> *itself, not "it felt"
[2016-05-19T08:50:19+1000] OK, so that's where I'd like some clarification - I'm not sure what primary sources are being referred to here
[2016-05-19T08:52:15+1000] I did some research and I posted a number of Developer Applications I located to the talk page
[2016-05-19T08:52:20+1000] is that the issue?
[2016-05-19T08:52:45+1000] <+Huon> chris_wot, well, one of the sources looks like an advertisement to me
[2016-05-19T08:52:52+1000] <+Huon> chris_wot, another is a Reddit post
[2016-05-19T08:53:07+1000] a reddit post is not a primary source
[2016-05-19T08:53:25+1000] <+Huon> no, but it's not a reliable source either
[2016-05-19T08:53:41+1000] <+Huon> user-submitted content without meaningful editorial oversight
[2016-05-19T08:53:43+1000] understood, but why not just remove it?
[2016-05-19T08:53:50+1000] <+Huon> well, that was done
[2016-05-19T08:53:55+1000] <+Huon> then you re-added it
[2016-05-19T08:54:36+1000] except that's a bit unfair really. The entire section was removed. Not just the source.
[2016-05-19T08:54:58+1000] <+Huon> well, I haven't checked all the sources yet
[2016-05-19T08:55:09+1000] that's OK, I'm not trying to trap you
[2016-05-19T08:55:18+1000] I'm trying to gain an insight into this whole mess
[2016-05-19T08:55:27+1000] <+Huon> but when BLP concerns are raised, re-adding the same content repeatedly is not a good idea
[2016-05-19T08:55:43+1000] no issue there, but I still do not understand what the BLP issues are
[2016-05-19T08:56:28+1000] FWIW, the reddit article just linked to an image with the advert
[2016-05-19T08:56:42+1000] <+Huon> so effectively it still was a primary source
[2016-05-19T08:56:44+1000] the advert is what is being directly referred to in the article
[2016-05-19T08:56:49+1000] Huon that is true
[2016-05-19T08:56:57+1000] what is the issue though with linking to the primary source?
[2016-05-19T09:00:36+1000] Huon?
[2016-05-19T09:01:41+1000] <+Huon> chris_wot, sorry I'm slow, looking through the content and the discussions
[2016-05-19T09:01:51+1000] that's OK :-)
[2016-05-19T09:02:05+1000] slow and thoroughness is good :-)
[2016-05-19T09:02:46+1000] thank you for being willing to respond to me, incidentally
[2016-05-19T09:05:36+1000] I should note I'd normally try to hash this out on the wiki user talk page (well, actually, this hasn't really happened to me before, but I digress) but that is not possible any more
[2016-05-19T09:07:53+1000] <+Huon> chris_wot, at a somewhat closer look, particularly at the talk page discussion, there were concerns - beyond the sourcing issues, with undue weight
[2016-05-19T09:08:14+1000] <+Huon> chris_wot, while many of the sources I checked are reliable, the level of detail still is excessive
[2016-05-19T09:08:21+1000] Huon, I understand, but we are now jumping around a bit here
[2016-05-19T09:08:32+1000] I would like to understand the reason for the block
[2016-05-19T09:08:50+1000] <+Huon> well, violating WP:UNDUE can still be a BLP issue
[2016-05-19T09:09:39+1000] Huon OK, could you explain to me then why you feel that WP:UNDUE is a problem?
[2016-05-19T09:10:03+1000] I guess I'm trying to understand what bit is the issue
[2016-05-19T09:10:20+1000] it appears to be one section that has a problem
[2016-05-19T09:10:59+1000] <+Huon> looking at the long version of the article I'd get the impression that "Mehajer is a reckless driver who married and was involved in some criminal proceedings that were dismissed - oh by the way, he also dabbles in politics"
[2016-05-19T09:11:07+1000] <+Huon> that's the wrong way round
[2016-05-19T09:11:30+1000] <+Huon> he's not that widely covered because he's an unsafe driver; there are far more of that sort
[2016-05-19T09:12:12+1000] I understand, but is that objection because the other material isn't being covered?
[2016-05-19T09:12:55+1000] <+Huon> no, but the objection is that the article does not focus on what Mehajer really is notable for
[2016-05-19T09:13:23+1000] OK, the issue I have with this though was that I was actively editing the article and had not had a chance to document this
[2016-05-19T09:13:27+1000] <+Huon> in short, the editors felt it was deliberately turned away from focusing on those aspects to cover trivial details about some ancillary issues
[2016-05-19T09:13:48+1000] I see, but I was about to add that material
[2016-05-19T09:14:13+1000] <+Huon> well, there's no way others can see what you were about to do
[2016-05-19T09:14:29+1000] Huon, actually... there was. I was advising them on the talk page
[2016-05-19T09:14:44+1000] <+Huon> what others can see was that you edit-warred to keep this content in the article, and argued on the talk page about the supreme importance of this content
[2016-05-19T09:15:06+1000] <+Huon> maybe I missed something; where did you announce you were going to expand other parts of the article, too?
[2016-05-19T09:15:27+1000] <+Huon> I still haven't read the entire talk page, so I may well have overlooked something
[2016-05-19T09:15:31+1000] that would be in the bit that has been removed from the talk page
[2016-05-19T09:15:46+1000] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Salim_Mehajer&diff=720688551&oldid=720683401
[2016-05-19T09:15:51+1000] by the admin who blocked me
[2016-05-19T09:16:39+1000] I also advised WWGB that is what I was doing
[2016-05-19T09:17:08+1000] And the other editor who was actively disputing and part of the reverting was also aware
[2016-05-19T09:17:19+1000] <+Huon> oh, now those really are primary sources
[2016-05-19T09:17:37+1000] Huon, understood - but they aren't used in the article
[2016-05-19T09:18:00+1000] <+Huon> then what were they put on the talk page for?
[2016-05-19T09:18:14+1000] <+Huon> BLP is relevat to talk pages and sandboxes, too, by the way
[2016-05-19T09:18:16+1000] it was part of research into the article
[2016-05-19T09:18:29+1000] <+Huon> why list sources that are unusable?
[2016-05-19T09:19:18+1000] they weren't unusuable :-) they detailed the buildings he has been involved in, each of them has a lot of secondary material
[2016-05-19T09:19:22+1000] I was cross checking it all
[2016-05-19T09:19:25+1000] <+Huon> sorry I missed that, but it seems that was much more of an issue than the overly detailed article itself
[2016-05-19T09:19:49+1000] <+Huon> I see a long, long list of council minutes with no secondary sources whatsoever
[2016-05-19T09:20:02+1000] Huon OK, understood, but can I ask then why it wasn't just removed and I wasn't advised of the exact material that was a problem before I was blocked?
[2016-05-19T09:20:12+1000] that material was never removed until way after the block
[2016-05-19T09:21:36+1000] Huon - understood about the long list of DAs, it was, as I say, research I was doing - if that was an issue I would have been happy to have removed it
[2016-05-19T09:21:53+1000] after all, I can make a list offsite - it's only background information
[2016-05-19T09:22:07+1000] I was merely attempting to be transparent in what I was researching
[2016-05-19T09:22:08+1000] <+Huon> the IP was blocked on May 17, 10:15 (UTC), right?
[2016-05-19T09:22:15+1000] not entirely sure
[2016-05-19T09:22:31+1000] <+Huon> and your account at 10:18
[2016-05-19T09:22:47+1000] ummm... sure, OK
[2016-05-19T09:22:49+1000] <+Huon> the sandbox was deleted at 10:18, too
[2016-05-19T09:22:52+1000] OK
[2016-05-19T09:23:11+1000] not sure I'm following...
[2016-05-19T09:23:18+1000] <+Huon> and the content on the talk page was reverted at 10:26
[2016-05-19T09:23:37+1000] <+Huon> I assume at some point in between the admin wrote the note on your user talk page explaining the block
[2016-05-19T09:23:54+1000] <+Huon> (haven't checked that datestamp)
[2016-05-19T09:23:59+1000] not that I recall
[2016-05-19T09:24:16+1000] if you could show me the message, that would be appreciated
[2016-05-19T09:24:38+1000] <+Huon> that doesn't look particularly "way after the block" to me; seems quite concurrent
[2016-05-19T09:25:23+1000] OK, so I'm not entirely sure I'm following here... the material was removed at 10:15
[2016-05-19T09:25:31+1000] and then I was blocked at 10:18
[2016-05-19T09:25:45+1000] <+Huon> yes, Nick-D placed the note on your talk page explaining the block at 10:26, too
[2016-05-19T09:25:51+1000] so I was meant to have done something in that 3 minutes?
[2016-05-19T09:26:03+1000] <+Huon> no, the admin was doing things at that time
[2016-05-19T09:26:34+1000] <+Huon> they decided to act, removed the content, left you an explanation, and blocked you, all at the same time, within minutes
[2016-05-19T09:27:10+1000] right. So I'm trying to understand - why not just remove the material?
[2016-05-19T09:27:14+1000] why the block?
[2016-05-19T09:27:32+1000] <+Huon> well, you already had edit-warred about material that had been removed and contested
[2016-05-19T09:27:53+1000] understood about that - edit warring deserves a block, I was wrong to do that
[2016-05-19T09:27:53+1000] <+Huon> with BLP explicitly mentioned, unless I'm interpreting things wrong
[2016-05-19T09:28:14+1000] OK, so the issue is not with the talk page, but with the article?
[2016-05-19T09:28:23+1000] <+Huon> so Nick-D probably considered it likely that, if you weren't blocked, you'd edit-war about the other content, too
[2016-05-19T09:28:23+1000] kyan (~kyan@cpe-76-178-228-236.maine.res.rr.com) joined the channel
[2016-05-19T09:28:28+1000] at least the indefinite block
[2016-05-19T09:28:41+1000] no, that's OK - but why an indefinite block?
[2016-05-19T09:29:09+1000] kyan (~kyan@cpe-76-178-228-236.maine.res.rr.com) left the channel ("Leaving")
[2016-05-19T09:29:20+1000] and I want to emphasise that I'm not asking to have it lifted
[2016-05-19T09:29:24+1000] just an understanding
[2016-05-19T09:29:36+1000] <+Huon> because BLP is highly important and (if I may try my hand at mind-reading) Nick-D probably felt that, if there was just a temporary block, you would sit it out and continue the same behaviour afterwards
[2016-05-19T09:30:22+1000] <+Huon> indefinite isn't infinite; it's only until you demonstrate that you understand the issues and will make sure they don't recur
[2016-05-19T09:30:36+1000] I see, so if I was to have acknowledged the behaviour was inappropriate then I could have had it lifted after a time?
[2016-05-19T09:31:01+1000] <+Huon> yes
[2016-05-19T09:31:29+1000] aside from coming here, what is the way in which I should have appealed the block?
[2016-05-19T09:32:19+1000] <+Huon> well, the standard approach would be on your user talk page, but I understand you lost access to the account
[2016-05-19T09:32:32+1000] that's right
[2016-05-19T09:32:46+1000] in fact, I was editing from a static IP
[2016-05-19T09:32:54+1000] which was also blocked, and I understand the reason
[2016-05-19T09:33:06+1000] could I have asked on the IP's talk page?
[2016-05-19T09:33:13+1000] <+Huon> then you may want to use the IP talk page and explain that you lost access to the account, yes
[2016-05-19T09:33:31+1000] <+Huon> UTRS is also available, particularly if you prefer some privacy
[2016-05-19T09:33:39+1000] I see - Huon, I did actually post a message on the IP address talk page
[2016-05-19T09:33:52+1000] <+Huon> sorry, that's one page I didn't check
[2016-05-19T09:33:58+1000] <+Huon> let me take a look
[2016-05-19T09:34:11+1000] at the time I was on a mobile IP
[2016-05-19T09:34:30+1000] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/1.129.97.101
[2016-05-19T09:34:53+1000] <+Huon> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:1.129.97.101&diff=prev&oldid=720689536 ?
[2016-05-19T09:35:16+1000] that's right - I was very upset at the time
[2016-05-19T09:36:32+1000] <+Huon> well, to be honest, I think Nick-D probably did you a favor by reverting that
[2016-05-19T09:37:08+1000] <+Huon> it shows that you were upset, and it would probably have been better to write only after cooling down
[2016-05-19T09:37:08+1000] I disagree
[2016-05-19T09:37:31+1000] OK, wouldn't it have been better though to say this?
[2016-05-19T09:38:05+1000] <+Huon> well, what did you want to achieve by that post?
[2016-05-19T09:38:16+1000] <+Huon> it doesn't look like an unblock request to me
[2016-05-19T09:38:54+1000] it was a protest really - for being blocked indefinitely
[2016-05-19T09:39:33+1000] even though I had lost control of the account, I was still unclear (and I am still unclear) what the indefinite block is for
[2016-05-19T09:40:00+1000] <+Huon> for the combination of edit-warring and BLP violations, I'd say
[2016-05-19T09:40:25+1000] OK, like I say, I understand the edit warring, but I'm still unclear as to the BLP violations bit
[2016-05-19T09:40:51+1000] I asked multiple times on the talk page to understand where the BLP violations were precisely
[2016-05-19T09:40:56+1000] <+Huon> I'm still not entirely sure I have a full understanding of the situation, but it seems you were felt to be in the process of summarizing every single piece of negative information you could get
[2016-05-19T09:41:26+1000] that's an unfair characterization
[2016-05-19T09:42:10+1000] I think perhaps the bit that is at issue is the bit about the traffic violations
[2016-05-19T09:43:26+1000] <+Huon> well, the collection in the sandbox seems to focus on claimed conflicts of interest, doesn't it?
[2016-05-19T09:43:57+1000] whatever was in the sandbox is in the talk page
[2016-05-19T09:44:35+1000] I just compiled my list on the sandbox, then copied that into the talk page
[2016-05-19T09:44:49+1000] <+Huon> yes
[2016-05-19T09:44:52+1000] to prevent too many edits on the talk page, which could have disrupted discussion
[2016-05-19T09:45:22+1000] it's just the DAs, and a list of articles from reliable sources
[2016-05-19T09:45:49+1000] <+Huon> maybe I'm misreading it, but to me it seems to be a collection of "In council session X Mehajer voted on issue Y in which he is financially involved"; am I misunderstanding that?
[2016-05-19T09:46:10+1000] no, the DAs are all recorded in the council sessions
[2016-05-19T09:46:24+1000] in the business meeting reports
[2016-05-19T09:46:47+1000] there were a number of significant times where I noted the meeting minutes however
[2016-05-19T09:46:49+1000] <+Huon> sorry, not familiar with the terminology - what's a DA?
[2016-05-19T09:46:57+1000] oh, sorry - Development Approval
[2016-05-19T09:47:16+1000] the thing that they submit to local councils in NSW, Australia to get approval for building
[2016-05-19T09:47:25+1000] sorry... Development Application, not Development Approval
[2016-05-19T09:47:57+1000] <+Huon> and more than half of all DAs the council decided on were submitted by Mehajer and his family?
[2016-05-19T09:48:19+1000] no, all the DAs I added were ones submitted by Mehajer
[2016-05-19T09:48:23+1000] or his family
[2016-05-19T09:48:41+1000] I was just researching the properties he owns
[2016-05-19T09:49:01+1000] and also chasing down the companies to verify them
[2016-05-19T09:49:05+1000] 1 - [[User talk:LordOfWank]] NEW Blocked by admin [[User:Widr]] at 2016-05-18; 04:46:14 for infinity: {{uw-uhblock}} (ID 6694546) - Username change request. Suggested new username: [[user:LordOfWk|reason=I am very sorry for any inconvenience I may have caused. I have chosen a new username that is more presentable in edits. I hope to not cause any other disruptions.]].
[2016-05-19T09:49:05+1000] Autoreport: there are 9 users in [[Category:Requests for unblock]] (1 new).
[2016-05-19T09:49:07+1000] <+Huon> yes, so you obviously did not create an unbiased record of his work as a councillor, but focused on issues where he may be seen to have had a conflict of interest
[2016-05-19T09:49:51+1000] for that section, the purpose was to understand the properties
[2016-05-19T09:50:02+1000] is that an issue?
[2016-05-19T09:50:25+1000] <+Huon> I assume the Auburn council isn't the only one Mehajer and his family sent DAs to, is it?
[2016-05-19T09:50:48+1000] <+Huon> or is his entire business in that one district (or whatever Auburn is formally called)?
[2016-05-19T09:50:50+1000] I couldn't locate any other proprerties
[2016-05-19T09:51:01+1000] Auburn City Council, which no longer exists
[2016-05-19T09:52:11+1000] <+Huon> and you looked for relevant DAs with other councils? I find it very difficult to believe that such a business empire would be concentrated within one council
[2016-05-19T09:52:37+1000] I did - there are a lot of councils though
[2016-05-19T09:52:37+1000] 1 - [[User talk:A10 REC]] NEW Blocked by admin [[User:Drmies]] at 2016-05-18; 16:52:57 for infinity: {{uw-spamublock}} (ID 6695313)
[2016-05-19T09:52:38+1000] Autoreport: there are 10 users in [[Category:Requests for unblock]] (1 new).
[2016-05-19T09:53:12+1000] Huon I'm rather afraid that the reason Mr Mehajer is so notorious is because of these properties
[2016-05-19T09:53:56+1000] so as surprising as it is to you... that's the issue and why he is being investigated, why he was suspended from the Council, why the council was all sacked and then the state government merged the council
[2016-05-19T09:54:32+1000] FWIW, I can understand how it looks to someone from outside NSW, Australia
[2016-05-19T09:55:06+1000] it looks very much like I'm attacking him, however that's why he's so notorious, outside of his wedding
[2016-05-19T09:56:10+1000] <+Huon> well, notorious or not, I think you will find it very difficult to obtain a consensus for this level of detail
[2016-05-19T09:56:40+1000] <+Huon> just imagine we'd write the article on Barack Obama in that level of detail
[2016-05-19T09:56:40+1000] I understand - but I would like to understand where I was advised of the issue with the research notes
[2016-05-19T09:57:18+1000] because I don't recall anyone ever objected before I was blocked
[2016-05-19T09:57:30+1000] <+Huon> I don't think you were advised of that before the block, but you were thoroughly aware that there were BLP concerns about that page and your conduct there
[2016-05-19T09:57:47+1000] which page? the talk page?
[2016-05-19T09:57:58+1000] or the article?
[2016-05-19T09:58:14+1000] <+Huon> the article, mostly, but putting it on the talk page doesn't help, of course
[2016-05-19T09:58:36+1000] <+Huon> in fact, I haven't followed that up, but I saw a comment of yours according to which a previous version of the page was deleted as an attack page
[2016-05-19T09:58:46+1000] OK, so can I ask more about the article then? because it appears the talk page really wasn't the reason I was blocked
[2016-05-19T09:59:09+1000] Huon yes, it was - and not in dispute that the tone was too negative
[2016-05-19T09:59:12+1000] <+Huon> the admin gave a list of things that, in combination, led to your block
[2016-05-19T09:59:30+1000] <+Huon> and putting that content on the talk page is mentioned in the list
[2016-05-19T10:00:10+1000] OK, if the content on the talk page is part of the reason for the block, then I think it's very unfair nobody said that what I had added was inappropriate
[2016-05-19T10:00:32+1000] if so, as I've said, I could have removed it (or they could have removed it)
[2016-05-19T10:01:33+1000] <+Huon> well, the way I read Nick-D's comments, it seems "removing inappropriate content" had already been tried in another example, to no avail
[2016-05-19T10:01:49+1000] <+Huon> thus Nick-D probably didn't believe it would work any better now
[2016-05-19T10:02:02+1000] well, then that's the article page - and I would like to understand the issues with the article content
[2016-05-19T10:02:18+1000] <+Huon> as I mentioned, WP:UNDUE
[2016-05-19T10:03:08+1000] alright, so I'm still unclear as to what bit was causing undue weight?
[2016-05-19T10:03:31+1000] I got told it was undue weight, but I was told that it was because the number of kilobytes increased dramatically
[2016-05-19T10:03:40+1000] is that seriously the issue?
[2016-05-19T10:04:22+1000] and in fact, is that really a BLP violation?
[2016-05-19T10:04:30+1000] <+Huon> well, I have glanced at quite a few references now, and they all describe him as "Auburn vice mayor" or "councillor" when they report on him - that's his primary claim to notability, clearly
[2016-05-19T10:04:48+1000] Huon - well, then you'd be wrong
[2016-05-19T10:05:13+1000] he has a number of claims to notability, but being a mayor is a major one
[2016-05-19T10:05:42+1000] sorry, deputy mayor
[2016-05-19T10:06:50+1000] <+Huon> well, where is a source that introduces him as reckless driver? "Salim Mehajer, well-known for his many car accidents, now has won a city council election"? I don't see anything of that kind
[2016-05-19T10:07:14+1000] Are you quoting from something?
[2016-05-19T10:07:23+1000] <+Huon> no, I was making up a quote
[2016-05-19T10:07:41+1000] I'm not sure I'm following what you are asking then
[2016-05-19T10:08:11+1000] oh...
[2016-05-19T10:08:14+1000] hold on, I see
[2016-05-19T10:08:20+1000] <+Huon> the article made Mehajer look like a person known for car crashes who happens to also have a political and business career
[2016-05-19T10:08:44+1000] <+Huon> the sources describe Mehajer as a politician or businessman who also happens to be involved in car crashes
[2016-05-19T10:08:46+1000] as I've said, that's really only because I wasn't finished editing the article
[2016-05-19T10:09:13+1000] but, in fact, that is indeed what he is widely known as in NSW
[2016-05-19T10:09:49+1000] <+Huon> well, I don't see any sources indicating that's his primary claim to notability
[2016-05-19T10:09:51+1000] known for
[2016-05-19T10:10:17+1000] um. Are you reading the same article on Wikipedia as myself?
[2016-05-19T10:10:24+1000] which revision are you looking at?
[2016-05-19T10:11:11+1000] 1 - [[User talk:74.104.133.161]] NEW Blocked by admin [[User:Widr]] at 2016-05-18; 11:41:36 until 2016-08-18; 11:41:36: {{anonblock}} (ID 6694956)
[2016-05-19T10:11:11+1000] Autoreport: there are 11 users in [[Category:Requests for unblock]] (1 new).
[2016-05-19T10:11:46+1000] also, I'm trying to understand how you get that impression, given that he has also got the intimidation charges, wedding and nine news articles documented
[2016-05-19T10:13:01+1000] <+Huon> well, the intimidation charges (which were dismissed but still get about as much space as his political career) certainly don't make the article look less like an attack page
[2016-05-19T10:13:43+1000] so the issue is that the automobile incidents section was too long?
[2016-05-19T10:14:34+1000] that section documents three very serious incidents, and summarizes in a paragraph the numerous other offenses he has commited
[2016-05-19T10:14:56+1000] I guess I'm trying to understand what should have been left out
[2016-05-19T10:15:01+1000] and why
[2016-05-19T10:15:55+1000] for reference, btw, I'm referring to this revision https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Salim_Mehajer&oldid=720683195
[2016-05-19T10:16:10+1000] <+Huon> unless the dismissed charges are a major event (say Bill Clinton's impeachment), I don't see why they should be mentioned at all, for example
[2016-05-19T10:16:26+1000] they were all major events
[2016-05-19T10:16:28+1000] <+Huon> Someone claimed something about him, it didn't hold up - what does that tell us about him?
[2016-05-19T10:16:59+1000] I'm afraid I need to ask what parts you are referring to
[2016-05-19T10:17:59+1000] <+Huon> According to Herat, Mehajer told him "Who the f..k are you to talk to me? What gives you the right to tell me how to use this machine? ... I am going to find out where you live motherf..ker, and I am going to kidnap your children." Mehajer's response in court was that "Those words don’t exist in my vocabulary. Maybe when I was in primary school."
[2016-05-19T10:18:32+1000] <+Huon> that's an incredible level of detail, and what do we ultimately learn from that?
[2016-05-19T10:18:49+1000] well, did you read the next bit?
[2016-05-19T10:19:01+1000] <+Huon> yes, yet more of a quote
[2016-05-19T10:19:06+1000] which is?
[2016-05-19T10:19:29+1000] <+Huon> However, The Australian noted that during his wedding he stated, in front of reporters and TV cameras: "What’s up Channel 9 viewers? This is how you do a wedding. Floyd Mayweather, you got no chance over me, motherf..ker".
[2016-05-19T10:19:57+1000] <+Huon> by now we're at more content on whether or not he uses the word "motherfucker" than about what he did in two years as deputy mayor
[2016-05-19T10:20:14+1000] <+Huon> don't you see that as a little unbalanced?
[2016-05-19T10:20:36+1000] sure, but like I say, I had a long way to go before I was done with that article - I was still writing it!
[2016-05-19T10:21:05+1000] <+Huon> well, what the "political career" section already does is note various investigations about him
[2016-05-19T10:21:39+1000] It should probably read "early political career"
[2016-05-19T10:21:55+1000] <+Huon> so it seems the negative content finds its way into the article quickly
[2016-05-19T10:22:36+1000] it seems that way, sure - but is that because of the subject, or because of me pushing a POV?
[2016-05-19T10:22:56+1000] if it's me pushing a POV, then I'm still not sure I'm following
[2016-05-19T10:23:19+1000] if the issue is that it should documented more of his political career, I don't disagree
[2016-05-19T10:23:29+1000] but then again, that's what I was going to be doing
[2016-05-19T10:23:53+1000] given I wasn't finished writing the article...
[2016-05-19T10:23:59+1000] <+Huon> I'd have to spend more effort on researching newspaper archives than I'd be willing to do now, but with your various talk page comments, it does seem you are less than neutral about Mehajer
[2016-05-19T10:24:38+1000] oh, my opinion of Mehajer isn't very high, sure. But that's not the issue I think
[2016-05-19T10:24:49+1000] the issue is with article content
[2016-05-19T10:25:06+1000] so, could you help me out here still, as I did ask something above
[2016-05-19T10:25:33+1000] <+Huon> sorry, what exactly is the question?
[2016-05-19T10:25:49+1000] the section that kept being removed, and that is related to the edit war, was the "Automobile incidents" section
[2016-05-19T10:26:01+1000] I asked what part should have been removed, and why
[2016-05-19T10:26:32+1000] <+Huon> well, personally I'd say two or three lines would have sufficed to sum it up
[2016-05-19T10:26:33+1000] given that's largely what I was blocked for, I'd really appreciate at answer to this
[2016-05-19T10:26:52+1000] <+Huon> the main points are that he's often involved in accidents and once hurt two women
[2016-05-19T10:27:13+1000] <+Huon> everything beyond that is bordering on celebrity gossip
[2016-05-19T10:27:30+1000] I'm afraid I disagree then
[2016-05-19T10:28:05+1000] however, I note that I asked this same question on the talk page
[2016-05-19T10:28:16+1000] <+Huon> you are, of course, welcome to do so, but sometimes we have to accept that consensus disagrees with us
[2016-05-19T10:28:53+1000] <+Huon> happened to me too, and I still think I'm right - but I wandered away from that article and found more fruitful pursuits
[2016-05-19T10:28:54+1000] so I'm trying to understand then - the entire section was inappropriate?
[2016-05-19T10:29:09+1000] not even a summary should have been given?
[2016-05-19T10:29:22+1000] even your summary few sentences should have been removed?
[2016-05-19T10:29:53+1000] Huon I dont' disagree, the article eventually did lead me to contemplate suicide
[2016-05-19T10:30:17+1000] <+Huon> personally I'd say such a short summary, likely within a "private life" section that also covers his marriage, would have been appropriate
[2016-05-19T10:30:22+1000] so yes, I should have walked away a lot sooner, however - that's not the issue here
[2016-05-19T10:30:41+1000] OK, so what is the best way to work out such a summary?
[2016-05-19T10:31:06+1000] Huon - that wouldn't have been appropriate at all
[2016-05-19T10:31:22+1000] these are major issues covered extensively in the media across Australia
[2016-05-19T10:31:46+1000] <+Huon> please note that it's just my personal opinion here, based only on what I read today; I hadn't heard about him before
[2016-05-19T10:32:10+1000] I understand, and I'm not asking for you to be a subject matter expert :-)
[2016-05-19T10:32:41+1000] however, because I was blocked for BLP violations, I very much want to know what the violations are
[2016-05-19T10:32:54+1000] it seems to boil down to [[WP:UNDUE]]
[2016-05-19T10:33:11+1000] however, it is not at all clear to me what is given undue to prominence
[2016-05-19T10:33:29+1000] the section that was removed was the automobile incidents section
[2016-05-19T10:33:54+1000] however, the incident relating to the women he nearly killed was highly significant and publicized widely
[2016-05-19T10:33:56+1000] <+Huon> and the editor explained on the talk page that they found the level of detail far too great
[2016-05-19T10:34:01+1000] did they?
[2016-05-19T10:34:38+1000] again, I'm rather afraid it's not evident to me what detail is the issue
[2016-05-19T10:34:47+1000] and I asked for clarification
[2016-05-19T10:34:57+1000] <+Huon> "I just deleted an incredible 11,843 bytes and four long paragraphs of writing about car crashes he'd gotten into. It even reports on his wife having allgedly gotten a defect notice for her car! The obsessive detail, the comments of the magistrates, the responses from Mehajer, and the entire contents of the third paragraph around petty traffic offences, the dismissed charge, etc. are massive overkill and should not be in this article period."
[2016-05-19T10:35:07+1000] <+Huon> I hope that didn't get cut off by IRC
[2016-05-19T10:35:13+1000] not at all
[2016-05-19T10:35:24+1000] that's what he asserts, sure
[2016-05-19T10:35:40+1000] <+Huon> they even propose a way towards a compromise
[2016-05-19T10:35:47+1000] which is?
[2016-05-19T10:38:04+1000] <+Huon> "I can see a case for including the cases on which he was found guilty, albeit in a much, more brief fashion"
[2016-05-19T10:38:27+1000] <+Huon> and further down, "Noting that he was found guilty of a crime and what the sentence was is perfectly appropriate for this article."
[2016-05-19T10:39:27+1000] and yet, that's what is already in the article
[2016-05-19T10:39:45+1000] or was, before it was wholesale removed
[2016-05-19T10:40:42+1000] what bits were in that section in https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Salim_Mehajer&oldid=720683195 that were not already such?
[2016-05-19T10:40:48+1000] <+Huon> well, there was far more than that
[2016-05-19T10:41:25+1000] could you explain further?
[2016-05-19T10:41:30+1000] <+Huon> Instead, the magistrate found that Mehajer's inability to control such a powerful car caused him to "[make] bad choices and it ended in catastrophe".
[2016-05-19T10:41:46+1000] what's the issue with that?
[2016-05-19T10:41:48+1000] <+Huon> he motorist then says he drove off but was followed by Mehajer and when they again stopped at a set of traffic lights Mehajer got out of his ute, yelled, punched and kicked his car.
[2016-05-19T10:41:56+1000] <+Huon> that's trivia, all of it
[2016-05-19T10:42:06+1000] that's not trivia at all
[2016-05-19T10:42:37+1000] that's detailing what was claimed and what he was charged and convicted over
[2016-05-19T10:43:10+1000] and the "[make] bad choices and it ended in catastrophe" is the crux of the court case
[2016-05-19T10:43:35+1000] <+Huon> "He was found guilty of the malicious damage charge" is all he was convicted of
[2016-05-19T10:43:52+1000] <+Huon> there's no need to get into the "he said-she said" in a biographical article
[2016-05-19T10:43:54+1000] except that it was important to note what he was charged with
[2016-05-19T10:44:16+1000] <+Huon> we're not a chronicle of every event that ever happened to him, not even if there's a newspaper report about it
[2016-05-19T10:44:21+1000] OK, but that
[2016-05-19T10:44:28+1000] 's not actually a violation of BLP
[2016-05-19T10:44:43+1000] it's just an issue of needing to modify the article, right?
[2016-05-19T10:45:06+1000] <+Huon> oh yes, if it leads to an article that primarily focuses on his court cases and negative publicity, then that's very much a BLP issue
[2016-05-19T10:45:31+1000] <+Huon> just imagine, for argument's sake, that someone began to add positive information in the same level of detail
[2016-05-19T10:45:52+1000] <+Huon> where is the paragraph on his relative winning a beauty pageant?
[2016-05-19T10:46:10+1000] not written yet
[2016-05-19T10:46:20+1000] and would have been
[2016-05-19T10:46:21+1000] <+Huon> where are the various election-related quotes that surely have been published in the news?
[2016-05-19T10:46:32+1000] not written yet
[2016-05-19T10:46:35+1000] and would have been
[2016-05-19T10:47:30+1000] so I think I need to get this straight - because there was not enough written about the rest of Mehajer's career, it made the rest of the article look unbalanced
[2016-05-19T10:47:40+1000] <+Huon> and how long did you envisage the article to be, in total?
[2016-05-19T10:47:45+1000] kyan (~kyan@cpe-76-178-228-236.maine.res.rr.com) joined the channel
[2016-05-19T10:47:49+1000] kyan (~kyan@cpe-76-178-228-236.maine.res.rr.com) left the channel ("Leaving")
[2016-05-19T10:47:54+1000] Huon, fairly long
[2016-05-19T10:47:58+1000] kyan (~kyan@cpe-76-178-228-236.maine.res.rr.com) joined the channel
[2016-05-19T10:48:04+1000] kyan (~kyan@cpe-76-178-228-236.maine.res.rr.com) left the channel ("Leaving")
[2016-05-19T10:48:08+1000] <+Huon> well, that too may be a problem
[2016-05-19T10:48:18+1000] well Huon, that's fine
[2016-05-19T10:48:18+1000] <+Huon> he is, after all, ultimately small fry
[2016-05-19T10:48:29+1000] Huon - frankly, that's irrelevant
[2016-05-19T10:49:19+1000] and also, of course, wrong
[2016-05-19T10:49:36+1000] may I ask where in the world you live?
[2016-05-19T10:50:23+1000] <+Huon> not Australia
[2016-05-19T10:50:41+1000] right - so I'm curious - why do you assert he is "small fry"?
[2016-05-19T10:52:12+1000] also, what does that have to do with the size of the article?
[2016-05-19T10:52:41+1000] also, what does that have to do with me getting blocked?
[2016-05-19T10:53:19+1000] <+Huon> well, he's obviously rich enough to stage that lavish wedding
[2016-05-19T10:53:50+1000] perhaps I'm not understanding what you mean by "small fry" then
[2016-05-19T10:54:40+1000] <+Huon> but he's a minor politician, and his notoriety seems to be entirely local
[2016-05-19T10:54:56+1000] and yet, that is where you would be entirely wrong
[2016-05-19T10:55:24+1000] and had I had a chance to complete the article, it would have shown his full significance
[2016-05-19T10:57:59+1000] so I have to go now, but it appears to me that the reason I was blocked was because one section seemed to be too long, but nobody can tell me or has attempted to summarise but just deleted it, the "BLP" issue is that it appears to give undue weight to his court case, but that was a judgement made based on an unfinished article I was actively in the middle of creating, the edit warring (which I accept being blocked for
[2016-05-19T10:57:59+1000] a short time for) and the fact that I had added the list of DAs to the talk page
[2016-05-19T10:58:21+1000] <+Huon> chris_wot, you seem to be disregarding half of what I said
[2016-05-19T10:58:32+1000] <+Huon> you were not blocked because "one section was too long"
[2016-05-19T10:58:44+1000] <+Huon> that was only one symptom of a larger issue
[2016-05-19T10:59:02+1000] I'm sorry, but I just don't know what that larger issue is...
[2016-05-19T10:59:13+1000] could you restate what it is?
[2016-05-19T10:59:18+1000] <+Huon> you seemed to be involved in collecting massive amonts of negative information, much of it based on dubious, inappropriate sources
[2016-05-19T10:59:36+1000] well, that's incorrect
[2016-05-19T10:59:48+1000] <+Huon> no, that's entirely correct
[2016-05-19T11:00:13+1000] <+Huon> need I quote you on how his DAs all are controversial in some way?
[2016-05-19T11:00:15+1000] alright then. Can you please provide me the dubious, inapppropriate sources?
[2016-05-19T11:00:36+1000] so it was the DAs then
[2016-05-19T11:00:48+1000] OK, was there any other sources?
[2016-05-19T11:00:50+1000] <+Huon> that's another part, yes
[2016-05-19T11:01:20+1000] no, you've accused me of collecting information from dubious, inappropriate sources, I think it's best if you tell me what they are
[2016-05-19T11:01:29+1000] it appears the DAs were one of the issues
[2016-05-19T11:01:34+1000] what about the other sources?
[2016-05-19T11:03:44+1000] sorry, need to go to the loo... be right back
[2016-05-19T11:10:34+1000] 1 - [[User talk:Jgg1999]] NEW Jgg1999 is not blocked
[2016-05-19T11:10:35+1000] Autoreport: there are 12 users in [[Category:Requests for unblock]] (1 new).
[2016-05-19T11:22:09+1000] [[user:Yamla]] reviewed and declined to unblock [[user talk:Jgg1999]]: Procedural decline. You are not blocked directly and did not provide your block message and/or IP, which we need to figure out what's going on.
[2016-05-19T11:25:35+1000] Handled: [[User talk:Jgg1999]]
[2016-05-19T11:25:35+1000] Autoreport: there are 11 users in [[Category:Requests for unblock]] (0 new).
[2016-05-19T11:27:34+1000] OK, I'm back :-) sorry about that
[2016-05-19T11:28:02+1000] so... when you are ready, could you advise me what sources you believe are from dubious and inappropriate sources?
[2016-05-19T11:28:24+1000] <+Huon> practically everything put on the talk page, I'd say
[2016-05-19T11:28:47+1000] Why do you say that?
[2016-05-19T11:29:27+1000] I would appreciate even one source that is not from Auburn Coucil
[2016-05-19T11:29:30+1000] Council
[2016-05-19T11:29:39+1000] <+Huon> because those are primary sources, not subject to editorial oversight, that are used to create a synthesis and make a point that no reliable secondary source makes
[2016-05-19T11:29:57+1000] <+Huon> and yes, the Auburn Council is a highly inappropriate source for a BLP
[2016-05-19T11:30:14+1000] that's OK, I would have removed them if I was asked, as I've said
[2016-05-19T11:30:36+1000] however, as I just asked, aside from those sources, what was inappropriate?
[2016-05-19T11:32:11+1000] I really would like an answer to this question, you have been very quick to make that assertion so it should not be hard for you to provide me with a source reasonably quickly
[2016-05-19T11:32:51+1000] <+Huon> you dumped some 40k of content on the talk page
[2016-05-19T11:33:04+1000] and you have stated that there is inappropriate sources
[2016-05-19T11:33:16+1000] which indicates you saw a source you felt was inappropriate
[2016-05-19T11:33:26+1000] thus, you should be able to provide it to me
[2016-05-19T11:33:52+1000] you are the one making this accusation, after all. I am the one asking you to prove it.
[2016-05-19T11:34:12+1000] however, I am happy to give you time
[2016-05-19T11:34:31+1000] <+Huon> the "developments", "home" and "council car park" sections have no place on Wikipedia, article or talk page
[2016-05-19T11:34:46+1000] why is that?
[2016-05-19T11:35:35+1000] <+Huon> basically, because WP:BLPPRIMARY says so
[2016-05-19T11:35:47+1000] <+Huon> we should not base BLP content on such public records
[2016-05-19T11:35:55+1000] <+Huon> and that goes for a talk page too
[2016-05-19T11:36:08+1000] <+Huon> this is not useful research aimed at improving the article
[2016-05-19T11:36:32+1000] OK, and all of these are from Auburn Council, and as I said had I been informed of this fact I would have happily removed them
[2016-05-19T11:37:31+1000] if someone adds material that they didn't realise would be an issue, isn't it normal practice to inform them of the material that is inappropriate and either get them to remove it, or remove it?
[2016-05-19T11:38:08+1000] <+Huon> well, people informed you of other BLP concerns before - what happened?
[2016-05-19T11:38:21+1000] <+Huon> Why was it reasonable to assume that your reaction now would be different?
[2016-05-19T11:39:07+1000] Sure, they informed me of what they said were BLP concerns, but I asked them to clarify what the BLP concerns were and they told me that primary sources aren't allowed at all, which is not true, and they said the article was a violation of [[WP:UNDUE]], which I asked them to clarify
[2016-05-19T11:39:27+1000] nobody told me that I could add some research links to the talk page
[2016-05-19T11:39:34+1000] couldn't
[2016-05-19T11:39:44+1000] frankly, I honestly didn't think it would be a concern
[2016-05-19T11:40:01+1000] evidently it is, but I only really just found this out right now
[2016-05-19T11:40:19+1000] so, I guess I'm asking once again - wouldn't it have been good had I been informed?
[2016-05-19T11:40:27+1000] and once again, is this why I was blocked?
[2016-05-19T11:40:40+1000] <+Huon> you were informed in the note accompanying the block
[2016-05-19T11:40:57+1000] so I was advised of my mistake, and then blocked
[2016-05-19T11:41:11+1000] sorry, scratch that - I was blocked, then advised of my mistake
[2016-05-19T11:41:21+1000] <+Huon> yes, to prevent further BLP issues
[2016-05-19T11:41:44+1000] but... if it was just an error, why would there have been further BLP issues?
[2016-05-19T11:42:46+1000] it's a massive assumption that I was digging for information to attack Salim Mehajer
[2016-05-19T11:42:52+1000] <+Huon> well, I'm sorry, probably I'm doing you an injustice here, but from the outside it looks entirely reasonable to expect that you would have argued, would have edit warred, and would have tried to push that content onto Wikipedia in some way
[2016-05-19T11:43:09+1000] you are indeed doing me a massive injustice
[2016-05-19T11:43:14+1000] <+Huon> well, we have the selection of sources you found
[2016-05-19T11:43:41+1000] you certainly do - all the ones that show what property he and his companies owned or have developed
[2016-05-19T11:44:08+1000] I'm trying to understand though, why is this a concern?
[2016-05-19T11:44:14+1000] you still haven't explained why
[2016-05-19T11:44:35+1000] <+Huon> the selection is rather one-sided
[2016-05-19T11:44:36+1000] you asked me if I was trying to find his other DAs, and I have explained I have, but I can't find anything
[2016-05-19T11:44:42+1000] how so?
[2016-05-19T11:44:48+1000] what should have been included?
[2016-05-19T11:44:53+1000] <+Huon> I did a quick Google News search on Mehajer some time in between
[2016-05-19T11:45:04+1000] oh yes
[2016-05-19T11:45:09+1000] what did you discover?
[2016-05-19T11:45:11+1000] <+Huon> what would have been difficult to put a negative spin on seems to be missing
[2016-05-19T11:45:23+1000] which is?
[2016-05-19T11:46:50+1000] <+Huon> well, the most relevant from the first page of Google News hits, beyond celebrity gossip, is this: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/property/salim-mehajer-gets-65m-lifeline-to-complete-project/news-story/fbdc14dbb346a83cb70e109c46036172
[2016-05-19T11:47:17+1000] funny, I seem to recall documenting that exact link in that section
[2016-05-19T11:48:05+1000] yup, here it is:
[2016-05-19T11:48:06+1000] Robertson, James (6 May 2016). "Salim Mehajer secures $65m in loans to build apartment complex". The Sydney Morning Herald.
[2016-05-19T11:48:24+1000] different source, but same article
[2016-05-19T11:48:35+1000] so... you were saying?
[2016-05-19T11:48:45+1000] any other info I'm missing?
[2016-05-19T11:49:11+1000] <+Huon> I missed that because I assumed a "Property development and Auburn City Council" section would contain sources relevant to both
[2016-05-19T11:49:54+1000] which means that you missed the fact that I divided that into really a few major sections
[2016-05-19T11:50:24+1000] but I'm not sure how, given that the first section is entitled "Developments", and the second section is "In The News"
[2016-05-19T11:51:07+1000] and the Developments section was just to identify his property portfolio, and I never really expected to document news sources in it, although there was a few I added
[2016-05-19T11:51:54+1000] so. Could you please tell me what other sources were dubious or inappropriate?
[2016-05-19T11:56:57+1000] Actually, I think I see one that was irrelevant: http://www.cbp.com.au/publications/2015/july/client-lunch-comes-back-to-bite-solicitor-found
[2016-05-19T11:57:03+1000] that's it though
[2016-05-19T11:57:16+1000] not sure why that link is in there...
[2016-05-19T11:58:53+1000] hello?
[2016-05-19T11:59:07+1000] Huon?
[2016-05-19T11:59:40+1000] <+Huon> chris_wot, sorry, was reading sources...
[2016-05-19T11:59:49+1000] you know, this sort of annoys me Huon
[2016-05-19T12:00:06+1000] you have made an accusation about me, but you have done so before checking your facts
[2016-05-19T12:00:52+1000] the reason I know that is the case, is with the exception of that mistaken link and the Council links, all the sources were from reliable and verifable news sources
[2016-05-19T12:01:02+1000] <+Huon> chris_wot, I apologize, but I noted repeatedly that I was giving opinions based on cursory readings of what in total amounts to many dozens of pages' worth of information
[2016-05-19T12:01:17+1000] I understand
[2016-05-19T12:01:26+1000] <+Huon> chris_wot, in this particular instance I indeed screwed up; I'm sorry for that
[2016-05-19T12:01:40+1000] it's OK :-) like I say, it wasn't my intent to trap you
[2016-05-19T12:01:52+1000] my sole purpose here is to understand my block
[2016-05-19T12:02:13+1000] you are an uninvolved admin, so I know you won't know the ins and outs of this case
[2016-05-19T12:02:47+1000] however, my deep concern here is that the issues that are being raised are really about the council links on the talk page.
[2016-05-19T12:03:07+1000] <+Huon> chris_wot, I'm terribly sorry, but I'll have to call it a night and get some sleep
[2016-05-19T12:03:11+1000] it's OK
[2016-05-19T12:03:23+1000] is there another admin I can speak to though?
[2016-05-19T12:03:33+1000] or another avenue I can email?
[2016-05-19T12:03:41+1000] <+Huon> there is UTRS, of course
[2016-05-19T12:03:51+1000] I think I am going to ask them to clarify what the issues are
[2016-05-19T12:03:57+1000] thank you for taking the time to speak with me
[2016-05-19T12:03:58+1000] <+Huon> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Unblock_Ticket_Request_System
[2016-05-19T12:04:02+1000] I appreciate it :-)
[2016-05-19T12:20:15+1000] Huon (~shogunat@wikipedia/Huon) left IRC (Quit: Bye!)

For Great Justice!

2016-05-21T00:48:00.000-07:00

From: Unblock Review Team <noreply-unblock@toolserver.org>

Date: 21 May 2016 at 5:39:41 AM AEST

To: chris.sherlock79 at gmail.com

Subject: Response to unblock appeal #15811

This is a reply to your Wikipedia unblock appeal from TParis, a Wikipedia administrator. DO NOT reply to this email - it is coming from an unattended email address.

Hello Letsbefiends,

The primary issue appears to be your misunderstanding of the purpose of Wikipedia. Wikipedia is a tertiary source. All material hosting on Wikipedia needs to have gone through published secondary sources before we'll cover it. The only material we'll include as a primary source is information on a person's identity; such as: race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

The diffs you were gathering appears to be opposition research and it appears that you may have a personal connection. To the blocking administrator, that makes it seem like you have an axe to grind. It's one thing to include secondary sources to improve the encyclopedia. It's another thing to gather primary sources to use Wikipedia to 'get the word out' about someone you consider to be a bad person.

Whatever your intent for doing the things that you did, we cannot get inside your head. We can't know what you really intend or intended to do. All we can do is make a judgement based on your actions. Even if you said it was not your intention, we can't know the truth of that. All we have are the diffs to go by. To be unblocked, you'd have to say you'd come off the subject or approach the dispute from another angle within policy.

See WP:PRIMARY and WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS.

As you aren't asking to be unblocked, I'm going to close this ticket. I hope this gives you closure.

TParis

English Wikipedia Administrator

The primary issue appears to be your misunderstanding of the purpose of Wikipedia.

OK then.

Wikipedia is a tertiary source. All material hosting on Wikipedia needs to have gone through published secondary sources before we'll cover it.

Primary, secondary and tertiary sources

"WP:PRIMARY" redirects here. For the article naming guideline, see WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.

Further information: Wikipedia:Identifying and using primary and secondary sources

Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources and, to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources and primary sources. Secondary or tertiary sources are needed to establish the topic's notability and to avoid novel interpretations of primary sources. All analyses and interpretive or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, and must not be an original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors.

I'm not entirely sure I'm following... but all right then. Next...

The only material we'll include as a primary source is information on a person's identity; such as: race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

Avoid misuse of primary sources

Further information: WP:PRIMARY

Shortcut:

WP:BLPPRIMARY

Exercise extreme caution in using primary sources. Do not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person. Do not use public records that include personal details, such as date of birth, home value, traffic citations, vehicle registrations, and home or business addresses.

Where primary-source material has been discussed by a reliable secondary source, it may be acceptable to rely on it to augment the secondary source, subject to the restrictions of this policy, no original research, and the other sourcing policies.^[4]

Must have read that wrong, he's saying something that look like it's violating the Biography of Living Person's policy. Hang on...

The only material we'll include as a primary source is information on a person's identity; such as: race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

You are allowed to use primary sources... carefully

Material based on primary sources can be valuable and appropriate additions to articles.

Primary sources may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements that any educated person—with access to the source but without specialist knowledge—will be able to verify are directly supported by the source. This person does not have to be able to determine that the material in the article or in the primary source is true. The goal is only that the person could compare the primary source with the material in the Wikipedia article, and agree that the primary source actually, directly says just what the article says it does.

Examples

An article about the conquest of the hypothetical country above: The proclamation itself is an acceptable primary source for a simple description of the proclamation, including its size, whether it was written in blackletter calligraphy, whether it is signed or has an official seal, and what words, dates, or names were on it. Anyone should be able to look at an image of the proclamation and see that it was all written on one page, whether it used that style of calligraphy, and so forth. However, the proclamation's authenticity, meaning, relevance, importance, typicality, influences, and so forth should all be left to the book that analyzed it, not to Wikipedia's editors.
An article about a novel: The novel itself is an acceptable primary source for information about the plot, the names of the characters, the number of chapters, or other contents in the book: Any educated person can read Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice and discover that the main character's name is Elizabeth or that there are 61 chapters. It is not an acceptable source for claims about book's style, themes, foreshadowing, symbolic meaning, values, importance, or other matters of critical analysis, interpretation, or evaluation: No one will find a direct statement of this material in the book.
An article about a film: The film itself is an acceptable primary source for information about the plot and the names of the characters. A Wikipedian cannot use the film as a source for claims about the film's themes, importance to the film genre, or other matters that require critical analysis or interpretation.
An article about a painting: The painting itself is an acceptable primary source for information about the colors, shapes, and figures in the painting. Any educated person can look at Georgia O'Keeffe's Cow Skull: Red, White, and Blue, and see that it is a painting of a cow's skull on a background of red, white, and blue. It is not an acceptable source for claims about the artist's motivation, allusions or relationships to other works, the meaning of the figures in the painting, or any other matters of analysis, interpretation, or evaluation: Looking at the painting does not tell anyone why the artist chose these colors, whether she meant to evoke religious or patriotic sentiments, or what motivated the composition.
An article about a person: The person's autobiography, own website, or a page about the person on an employer's or publisher's website, is an acceptable (although possibly incomplete) primary^‡ source for information about what the person says about himself or herself. Such primary sources can normally be used for non-controversial facts about the person and for clearly attributed controversial statements. Many other primary sources, including birth certificates, the Social Security Death Index, and court documents, are usually not acceptable primary sources, because it is impossible for the viewer to know whether the person listed on the document is the notable subject rather than another person who happens to have the same name.
An article about a business: The organization's own website is an acceptable (although possibly incomplete) primary^‡ source for information about what the company says about itself and for most basic facts about its history, products, employees, finances, and facilities. It is not likely to be an acceptable source for most claims about how it or its products compare to similar companies and their products (e.g., "OurCo's Foo is better than Brand X"), although it will be acceptable for some simple, objective comparison claims ("OurCo is the oldest widget business in Smallville" or "OurCo sells more widgets than anyone else in New Zealand"). It is never an acceptable source for claims that evaluate or analyze the company or its actions, such as an analysis of its marketing strategies (e.g., "OurCo's sponsorship of National Breast Cancer Month is an effective tool in expanding sales to middle-aged, middle-class American women").

‡ ^ A person's or an organization's website could contain some secondary material about itself, although this is not very common. Such material would still be self-published as well as first-party/affiliated/non-independent material, and thus would still be subject to restrictions in how you can use it.

Hang about, didn't he say that primary sources can only be "information on a person's identity; such as: race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc"? (and why "sexual orientation"?)

So in other words, the following is not allowed?

Researched information

I have put together quite a bit of information about the subject. See below. - Letsbefiends (talk) 14:57, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Please don't collapse this. It took me a lot of time to gather this material and collapsing it makes it unnecessarily difficult to view it. - 203.217.39.91 (talk) 12:05, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Developments

OK, so these are developments he owns. They've all been controversial one way or another. - 203.217.39.91 (talk) 12:09, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Owns/owned (through Mehajer Bros Pty Ltd) 3 Mary St, Auburn
- There is a DA for this property according to a DA search on Auburn Council's website - DA-416/2011, DA is for "Minor internal alterations and fit out works to existing educational establishment." Applicant is 288 Capital Pty Ltd (ABN 87 123 073 138, ACN 123 073 138) and approved on 21/12/2011...
- No council meeting minutes!!!
- Klan, Anthony (19 March 2016). "Salim Mehajer eyes $7m property sale jackpot". The Australian.

Discussion: So with this one, it's what got him suspended from council. He didn't disclose ownership of this but passed council business, which is what the tribunal found he did wrong because he was bound to get a substantial material gain from it. - 203.217.39.91 (talk)

Development Applications

13-21 John St, Lidcombe
- DA-119/2012:
  - Owner: Auburn City Council
  - Applicant: Sydney Constructions & Developers Pty Ltd and Mr S Mehajer (Selim Mehajer)
  - Auburn Council 21 November 2012 Meeting Minutes, Information Report – JRPP - 13-21 John Street, Lidcombe, Page 6
  - Auburn Council 21 November 2012 Business Paper, Information Report – JRPP - 13-21 John Street, Lidcombe, Page 29

36-38 John St, Lidcombe:
- DA-290/2012/A:
  - Applicant: Zhinar Architects
  - Owner: Sydney Building Constructions Pty Ltd
  - Auburn Council July 16, 2014 Business Paper, Page 314
  - http://www.ragaa.org/devsites/johnst36-38.html

38 John St, Lidcombe:
- DA-290/2012/B
  - Applicant: Salim Mehajer
  - Owner: S.E.T Services Pty Ltd
  - Auburn Council 19 November 2014 Business Paper, Page 203

36-44 John St, Lidcombe:
- DA294/2014 (JRPP No: 2014SYW140 DA)
  - Applicant: Sydney Project Group
  - Owner: Sydney Project Group Pty Ltd, S.E.T Services Pty Ltd
  - Proposed development: Construction of a 12 storey mixed use development comprising 153 residential units, 16 commercial units with 4 levels of basement parking and 241 car spaces
  - Cover Sheet
  - Remediation plan, commissioned by SM Engineering and Constructions Pty Ltd
  - Approved: 4 June 2015
  - http://www.ragaa.org/devsites/johnst36-44.html

40-44 John Street, Lidcombe:
- DA-352/2012/A
  - Owner: Mr J G T Vuong and Ms C H Lam (Clr Lam...)
  - Sydney Project Group Pty Ltd
  - Auburn Council 16 July 2014 Business Paper, Page 354
- DA-352/2012/B
  - Applicant: Salim Mehajer
  - Owner: Mr J G T Vuong and Ms C H Lam (Councillor Lam...)
  - Auburn Council 15 Octomber 2014 Business Paper, Page 121
- http://www.ragaa.org/devsites/johnst4044.html

52-56 John Street and 1A Childs Street, Lidcombe:
- DA-507/2005:
  - Applicant: Sydney Building Construction Pty Limited
  - Owner: Mr M Mehajer and Mrs A Mehajer
  - Auburn Council December 3, 2008 Business Paper, Page 202
  - Auburn Council August 19, 2009 Business Paper, Page 142
- DA-241/2010:
  - Applicant: Sydney Building Construction Pty Limited
  - Owner: Mr M Mehajer and Mrs A Mehajer
  - Auburn Council 28 September 2010 Business Paper for Extraordinary Council Meeting, page 69
  - Auburn Council October 20, 2010 Business Paper - Notice of Rescission Motion - 52-56 John Street, Lidcombe, page 74
- http://www.ragaa.org/devsites/johnst.html

46-50A John Street, Lidcombe
- DA-627/2003/B:
  - Applicant: Sydney Building Construction Pty Limited
  - Owner: Mr M Mehajer and Mrs A Mehajer
  - Auburn Council May 7, 2008 Business Paper, Page 15
  - Auburn Council August 19, 2009 Meeting Agenda, Page 142
- DA-240/2010:
  - Applicant: Sydney Building Construction Pty Limited
  - Owner: Mr M Mehajer and Mrs A Mehajer
  - Auburn Council 28 September 2010 Business Paper for Extraordinary Council Meeting, page 32
  - Auburn Council October 20, 2010 Business Paper - Notice of Rescission Motion - 46-50A John Street, Lidcombe, page 34
- http://www.ragaa.org/devsites/johnst4650.html

Salim Mehajer home

14 Frances St, Lidcombe
- DA-79/2009:
  - Granted 9 June 2009
    - There are no minutes for this meeting!!!
- DA-79/2009/B:
  - Applicant: Sydney Project Group Pty Ltd
  - Owner: Salim Mehajer
  - 19 November 2014 Business Meeting
- DA-232/2008:
  - Granted 28 November 2008
    - There are no minutes for this meeting!!!
    - Council under delegated authority approved Development Application Number 232/2008 for demolition of existing dwelling, removal of a tree and construction of two storey dwelling house with basement carpark, a front fence, an outbuilding and a BBQ facility subject to conditions. Business Paper, Page 299
- DA-232/2008/E:
  - Application: Sydney Project Group Pty Ltd
  - Owner: Salim Mehajer
  - 19 November Business Paper, Page 299
  - Section 96(1A) modification to increase height of lift and stair overruns and for changes to internal layout of dwelling.
  - Rescinded! - meeting minutes 3 December 2014, only one opposed Clr. Oldfield
- DA-232/2008/F:
  - Applicant: Advanced International Developments Pty Ltd
  - Owner: Salim Mehajer
  - Auburn Independent Assessment Panel Meeting, 6 April 2016, Page 4
  - "The subject Section 96(1A) application DA-232/2008/F is lodged to the Council for determination for modifications to approved plans associated with DA-232/2008 to increase height of rear and side boundary fences to 2.1m (from 1.8m), and replace approved grass in the nature strip outside the front of the property with artificial grass" - refused

Council Car Park

13 John St, Lidcombe
- Sale clause was in 333/11 of council minutes of 16 November 2011:
  - "In the event that the Purchaser does not obtain the Development Consent for the subject property and the adjoining property within eighteen (18) months from the date hereof then either party may be at liberty to rescind this contract whereupon the provisions of Clause 19 shall apply"
  - "That Simon Diab & Associates on behalf of Sydney Constructions & Developments Pty Limited be advised of Council’s decision."
- In the council Business Paper for their meeting 21 November, it states that:
  - "Sydney Constructions and Developments Pty Limited (Purchaser) submitted Development Application 119/2012 (DA) on 20 April 2012, for a mixed use development over the properties at 15, 19 and 21 John Street and Council’s open car park at 13 John Street Lidcombe. The DA is being assessed externally by a Planning Consultant and will be determined by the Joint Regional Planning Panel." (Background, page 125)
- Council chooses to rescind sale to original purchaser and sells car park to Sydney Constructions and Developments Pty Ltd for $6.5 million (see 300A/12 of Council meeting minutes for 5 December 2012).
- Request is made to reduce the holding deposit for the sale of the Car Park, which is discussed under closed session on 20 November 2013, on the grounds that open discussion would "contain information that would, if disclosed, confer a commercial advantage on a person with whom the Council is conducting (or proposes to conduct) business".
- Council decides to reduce the deposit to 5% - or $325,000 (see C039/13 of Council minutes of meeting held 4 December 2013)
  - Note! I cannot find item C038/13 which was rescinded! There appears to be a set of meeting minutes missing...
- On 11 December 2013, Clr Simms attempts to rescind reduction in holding deposit, C040/13 but motion is lost (For: Councillors Campbell, Batik, Oldfield and Simms; Against: Zraika, Attie, Lam, Oueik, and Yang).

Discussion

The council car park was very controversial. See-Win won it initially, but asked for more time. Council rescinded the contract though. But when Mehajer asked to reduce his holding deposit by half, it was initially opposed and then pushed through by the other councillors. I distinct;y remember press at the time commenting on this, I'll have to see if I can find it. - 203.217.39.91 (talk) 12:13, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

In the news

His home

McKenny, Leesha (28 October 2015). "Auburn Council deputy mayor Salim Mehajer being sued for his staircase". The Sydney Morning Herald.

Thomson, Warren (6 April 2016). "Salim Mehajer in trouble with Auburn Council after installing artificial turf without consent". Parramatta Advertiser.

"Mehajer under fire over home". Sky News. 6 April 2016.

Property development and Auburn City Council

Murphy, Damien (16 August 2015). "Auburn Deputy Mayor Salim Mehajer wedding was delayed until father's release from jail". The Sydney Morning Herald.

Robertson, James (6 May 2016). "Salim Mehajer secures $65m in loans to build apartment complex". The Sydney Morning Herald.

Klan, Anthony (19 March 2016). "Salim Mehajer eyes $7m property sale jackpot". The Australian.

Klan, Anthony (19 March 2016). "Salim Mehajer eyes $7m property sale jackpot". The Australian.

Godfrey, Miles (19 February 2016). "Salim Mehajer accuses former colleagues after council decisions went against him". The Daily Telegraph.

Kidd, Jessica (18 February 2016). "Salim Mehajer rebukes 'dole bludger' Auburn council colleagues after planning decisions overturned". ABC News.

Robertson, James (18 February 2016). "Salim Mehajer defiant after Auburn council decisions overturned". The Sydney Morning Herald.

Thomson, Warren (18 February 2016). "Administrator blocks Salim Mehajer’s purchase of an Auburn Council carpark in Lidcombe". Parramatta Advertiser.

"Auburn Council administrator reverses decisions set to benefit Salim Mehajer". ABC News. 18 February 2016.

Thomson, Warren (17 February 2016). "Auburn Council: Deal to sell council carpark to Salim Mehajer overturned". The Daily Telegraph.

Brook, Benedict (11 February 2016). "The apartment block that brought down a council and could cost Salim Mehajer millions". The Daily Telegraph.

Godfrey, Miles (11 February 2016). "Auburn Council sacked by State Government following allegations of improper conduct". The Daily Telegraph.

Brook, Benedict (10 February 2016). "Salim Mehajer says Auburn sacking an “abuse of power” by NSW Government". news.com.au.

"'Mr Teflon': Sydney's showiest politician comes unstuck". BBC News. 5 February 2016.

Changing the Auburn LEP

Silmalis, Linda (22 August 2015). "How deputy mayor Salim Mehajer and mayor Ronney Oueik struck property gold in Auburn". The Daily Telegraph.

Police investigations/Court cases/Tribunals

Whitbourn, Michaela (10 August 2015). "Auburn deputy mayor Salim Mehajer faces tribunal over alleged breach of pecuniary interest laws". The Sydney Morning Herald.

Whitbourn, Michaela (8 September 2015). "Auburn deputy mayor Salim Mehajer and companies being sued for almost $2 million". The Sydney Morning Herald.

McKenny, Leesha; Whitbourn, Michaela (27 October 2015). "Auburn deputy mayor Salim Mehajer's 'right hand man' admits forging documents". The Sydney Morning Herald.

McKenny, Leesha; Whitbourn, Michaela (27 October 2015). "Auburn deputy mayor Salim Mehajer and partner being sued for almost $700,000". The Brisbane Times.

McKenny, Leesha; Whitbourn, Michaela (18 November 2015). "Auburn deputy mayor Salim Mehajer in court over driving charges". The Sydney Morning Herald.

Whitbourn, Michaela (20 December 2015). "Salim Mehajer facing 10 years' jail on vote fraud charges blames 'hidden agendas'". The Sydney Morning Herald.

Whitbourn, Michaela (29 January 2016). "Salim Mehajer suspended for voting without disclosure, adding $1m to property's value". The Sydney Morning Herald.

Whitbourn, Michaela (3 February 2016). "Salim Mehajer launches urgent appeal against suspension from council". The Sydney Morning Herald.

Robertson, James (5 February 2016). "Auburn councillor Salim Mehajer's unusual defence in court: 'It may be unattractive but we believe it'". The Sydney Morning Herald.

Hills, Brenden (1 May 2016). "Salim Mehajer lodged documents claiming alleged criminal lived in widow’s home". The Sunday Telegraph.

Quinn, Liam (24 April 2016). "Salim chance of a comeback? Case against six people accused of rigging council vote to get suspended deputy Mayor Mehajer elected ‘has fallen apart because police waiting too long to charge them’". Daily Mail.

Hills, Brenden (24 April 2016). "Salim Mehajer case: Time delay kills off charges against six". The Daily Telegraph.

Robertson, James (18 April 2016). "Salim Mehajer company fights wind-up move". The Brisbane Times.

Awford, Jenny (10 April 2016). "'Stream of voter forms faxed from the SAME fax number sparked electoral fraud probe' against controversial Auburn deputy mayor Salim Mehajer". Daily Mail.

Hills, Brenden (10 April 2016). "Salim Mehajer probe: Fax marathon of 57 voter enrolment forms is smoking gun, prosecutors say". The Sunday Telegraph.

Rushton, Gina (31 March 2016). "Court orders state to pay Salim Mehajer legal costs". The Australian.

Rushton, Gina (30 March 2016). "Salim Mehajer: NSW taxpayers to foot legal bill for Auburn figh". The Australian.

Brook, Benedict (30 March 2016). "NSW Government forced to pay legal costs of former Auburn Deputy Mayor Salim Mehajer". news.com.au.

Whitbourn, Michaela (30 March 2016). "State government ordered to pay Salim Mehajer's legal costs". The Sydney Morning Herald.

"Salim Mehajer's family business empire cracking under legal strains". Yahoo7 News. 25 March 2016.

Crawford, Sarah (26 February 2016). "Salim Mehajer wins appeal against Auburn Council suspension". The Daily Telegraph.

Seymour, Bryan (16 February 2016). "Reality TV star embroiled in Salim's 'dodgy demerit point transfer'". Yahoo7 News.

Seymour, Bryan (2 February 2016). "Salim's cut-price cars: Mehajer's $650,000 Rolls Royce valued to the RMS for just $65,000". 7News Sydney.

McClellan, Ben; Bamford, Matt (2 February 2016). "Salim Mehajer and his sister Fatima accused of local council voting fraud". The Daily Telegraph.

"Salim Mehajer chooses not to appear at court to face electoral fraud charges". news.com.au. 2 February 2016.

Seymour, Bryan (1 February 2016). "Sydney student unknowingly wearing demerit points accrued against controversial deputy mayor Salim Mehajer". Yahoo7 News.

Auerbach, Taylor (2 February 2016). "Salim Mehajer claims ‘no knowledge’ of demerit points issued under his name". The Daily Telegraph.

Godfrey, Miles (29 January 2016). "Salim Mehajer banned for four months for failing to disclose development interests". The Daily Telegraph.

Brook, Benedict (5 May 2016). "Salim Mehajer praises wife but singles out another for a special thank you". news.com.au. The former deputy mayor of western Sydney’s Auburn Council is being taken to court by metal and aluminium fabricators Iron World to get back $46,000 the business claims it is owed for work on a luxury marble staircase installed in Mr Mehajer’s Lidcombe home, reports the Daily Telegraph. “We have done work before (for Mr Mehajer) and got paid but the last invoice just before the wedding we could not get the money,” Iron World business owner Sam Obeid said. “He is just delaying, that is all — we know every time he promises, promises and then nothing happens ... We need to pay our suppliers,” reported the Telegraph.

Cheer, Louise (28 October 2015). "Gaudy groom Salim Mehajer sued by a tradesman for an unpaid $15,000 bill for a marble staircase built inside his home - which featured in rapper Bow Wow's video". Daily Mail. The owner of Marmonyx Stone, Yashar Shokrgozar, claims Cr Mehajer failed to pay his company thousands of dollars for the work his employees carried out in his Lidcombe home, in Sydney's west, last year. It is understood by the Herald Cr Mehajer allegedly owes Marmonyx Stone about $15,000 for the Persian onyx staircase that took a month to erect and was completed nine months ago, The Sydney Morning Herald reported.

Hangin' with celebrities

"Salim Mehajer throws $50k party with rapper Tyga for wife’s 30th... but Aysha’s nowhere to be seen". The Daily Telegraph. 13 April 2016.

"Former Auburn Deputy Mayor Salim Mehajer posts picture on Facebook of himself, and US musicians Tyga and Omarion, posing with a cake". news.com.au. 12 April 2016.

Piotrowski, Daniel (5 May 2016). "'She wasn't my first pick': Three Miss Lebanon Australia judges say Salim Mehajer's little sister Mary was NOT their top choice - but she won the crown anyway". The Daily Mail.

Other

Companies

~~Sydney Group Pty Ltd (ABN 59 154 021 002, ACN 154 021 002)~~
~~talk) 08:24, 17 May 2016 (UTC)~~
SM Project Developments Pty Ltd (ABN 30 130 968 811, ACN 130 968 811)
Klan, Anthony; Bearup, Greg (12 December 2015). the original on 25 October 2012. Retrieved 13 May 2016. Co Director of SM Project Developments
SM Engineering & Construction Pty Ltd (ABN Liquidated)
Life in the Fast Lane (PDF), The Australian, retrieved 2016-05-12
the original on 25 October 2012. Retrieved 13 May 2016. Salim has since opened his very own company in 2007 known as SM Engineering & Constructions P/L, whereby he is the sole director
SM Engineering & Constructions (sole trader, ABN 50 388 412 508)
"Historical details for ABN 50 388 412 508". abr.business.gov.au. 17 May 2015. Entity Name: MEHAJER, SALIM, From: 01 Oct 2007, To: (current)
SM Engineering & Construction (NSW) Pty Ltd (ABN 18 164 405 109, ACN 164 405 109)
Life in the Fast Lane (PDF), The Australian, retrieved 2016-05-12
SM Engineering & Construction Services Pty Ltd (ABN 19 164 334 276, ACN 164 334 276)
Life in the Fast Lane (PDF), The Australian, retrieved 2016-05-12
S.E.T. Services (ABN 48 151 314 439, ACN 151 314 439)
McKenny, Leesha (24 November 2015). The Sydney Morning Herald.
Sydney Constructions & Developments Pty Ltd (ABN 35 147 549 102, ACN 147 549 102)
Life in the Fast Lane (PDF), The Australian, retrieved 2016-05-12
McKenny, Leesha (24 November 2015). the original on 25 October 2012. Retrieved 13 May 2016. Co director of Sydney Constructions and Developments P/L
Sydney Project Group Pty Ltd (ABN 18 155 827 295, ACN 155 827 295)
Robertson, James (24 March 2016). The Australian, retrieved 2016-05-12
Sydney Construction Group Pty Ltd (ABN 62 114 931 743, ACN 114 931 743)
the original on 25 October 2012. Retrieved 13 May 2016. Co Director of Sydney Construction Group P/L
Australian Community Association Pty Ltd (ACN 150 648 936)
Current & Historical Company Extract, Australian Community Association Pty Ltd, ACN: 150 648 936, Australian Securities and Investments Commission, 12 May 2016
Office of Local Government v Salim Mehajer [2016] NSWCATOD 10, NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal, 29 January 2016, retrieved 2016-05-12
Mehajer Bros Pty Ltd (ABN 45 155 093 977, ACN 155 093 977)
The Australian, retrieved 2016-05-12
Advanced International Developments (ABN 16 165 691 850, ACN 165 691 850)
Klan, Anthony (25 February 2016). The Australian.
Skypoint Towers Pty Ltd (ABN ABN 58 167 719 959, ACN 167 719 959)
Klan, Anthony; Bearup, Greg (12 December 2015). The Australian, retrieved 2016-05-12
Mehajer Law Group Pty Ltd
Life in the Fast Lane (PDF), The Australian, retrieved 2016-05-12
Mehajer Bros Auto Pty Ltd
Life in the Fast Lane (PDF), The Australian, retrieved 2016-05-12
Mehajer Consolidated Pty Ltd
Life in the Fast Lane (PDF), The Australian, retrieved 2016-05-12
Mehajer Holdings Pty Ltd (ABN 62 601 957 662, ACN 601 957 662)
Life in the Fast Lane (PDF), The Australian, retrieved 2016-05-12
Sydney Building Constructions Pty Ltd (ABN 73 064 430 280, ACN 064 430 280)
Note: Not to be confused with The Sydney Building Construction Pty Ltd (ABN The Australian, retrieved 2016-05-12

Sydney Building Developments Pty Ltd

Life in the Fast Lane (PDF), The Australian, retrieved 2016-05-12

Oz Buildings & Constructions Pty Ltd

Life in the Fast Lane (PDF), The Australian, retrieved 2016-05-12

Don't bite the newbies: why Wikipedia is such a horrible place to contribute to

2016-05-15T10:23:00.001-07:00

This isn't going to be very long really. Wikipedia is a horrible place to edit because it encourages horrible behaviour.

When I first started many years ago, there was a real sense that you could collaborate on articles. You could have a disagreement and come to a compromise. That's not possible any more. What happens is that instead of asking on the talk page "do you think that might be a bit too much", or even actually discuss the issues at hand, you instead get folks who just lop out whole sections of articles. And of course, you get insulted and called "obsessive" when you try to actually do some decent research. Normally you get called this by people who like to tweak the articles, or do a lot of talking on Wikipedia space, especially WP:AN/I or WP:AN or even (ugh) WP:AN/3RR.

Here's an example - a certain deputy mayor of a certain suspended council in Western Sydney has had 22 traffic incidents, flouted the law with impunity, and used a section 10 to get out of driving without a license in an unregistered vehicle. He's never once been ~~charged~~ convicted, which frankly should boggle the mind. But OK, I can understand how you might consider that it is possibly "obsessive" to look up Google news to locate what he did so it can be properly sourced.

Because, you know, when the deputy mayor of a very large city in Sydney holds a list of driving convictions that include using a mobile phone whilst driving, performing an illegal burn out, driving whilst viewing a distracting Visual Display Unit, running a red light, disobeying a stop sign, performing an illegal U-turn, breaking the speed limit on five seperate occasions, driving his car on the wrong side of the road on one occasion, driving without showing his P plate correctly and then refusing to show his driver's license; call me crazy but I think that's fairly significant!

But imagine that same politician took out his Ferrari and drove it so badly that he ran over two women who were rushed to hospital with serious injuries to their pelvic area and their legs, then spent a month in recovery. Then imagine that same person was charged and convicted of negligent driving. And then appealed and got off completely, then put a half page advertisement out in the local paper proclaiming his vindication. Then imagine he got sued (and lost) for $1.35 million, which his insurer had to pay out.

Now would you consider that perhaps the law has let us down? Do you think that maybe the automobile incidents are actually fairly important to have documented? Would you consider it "obsessive" to have spent about 10 minutes reading a number of news articles and then documenting the fact that this politician seems to literally get away with what you or I could never get away with?

Of course it's not important. In fact, it's positively ridiculous!

What about the fact that the politician is a developer who has been voting through serious changes that negatively impact on his constituents through a series of proprietary limited shell corporations which, when people look a little too closely at, he transfers his directorship over to someone else? Or the fact that he has a not-for-profit company supposedly for the good of the youth of his city that was used to take out a half page advertisement praising his decision to do law?

Evidently chasing down these companies and putting them in a list with their ABNs and ACNs is.... well, why don't I just quote from them? "The compilation of all the companies he's a director of, many of which are so non-notable the author has had to refer to business registration records, is an atrocious case of original research and absolutely does not belong in this article. These are such trivial details that no journalist has bothered to compile them in any of the tens of thousands of stories about him for a reason." (but of course I didn't use that as a citation... or did I?)

No, of course the citations to the secondary sources aren't enough. Because, you know, Original Research. If only I truly understood what Original Research was - I've been labouring under the impression all these years that the WP:OR rule was to ensure that only material that uses reliable, published sources (like, say, The Australian or The Sydney Morning Herald, or even an extract from the ASIC company report that shows it's history...) and that directly relate to the article itself (like, I don't know, the fact that the subject is a director of all these shell companies to avoid scrutiny and is currently being investigated by the Australian Securities and Investment Commission...) should be used in articles.

Silly me.

Yup, Wikipedia - you once were great, now you are the shit-pile of the Internet and so not worth my time that it's easier just to scramble my password, write up an angry blog post and wipe my hands of it forever more.

Running and disguising programs through XCode shims on OS X

2016-05-07T21:10:00.001-07:00

Here's a spot of non-sudo fun on OS X, figured out after reading the following Hacker News story from the OS X git security flaw update article written by the always amazing Rachel (which is in turn a follow up to this article). Open the OS X terminal and paste in the following:

mkdir -p ~/xcls/usr/bin
cat <<EOF > ~/xcls/usr/bin/xcrun
#!/bin/sh
if [ "\$1" = "git" ];
then
   exec -a "/usr/bin/git" echo "Hello world!"
   exit \$?
fi
  
shift 1
xcrun "\$@"
exit \$?
EOF
chmod a+x ~/xcls/usr/bin/xcrun
chflags hidden ~/xcls
echo "export DEVELOPER_DIR=~/xcls/" >> ~/.bashrc
export DEVELOPER_DIR=~/xcls/

If I run git HelloWorld, even if I start up a new bash shell:

630188s-iMac:testrun 5K$ git HelloWorld
Hello world!

If you were to look at echo statement under ps, you would see it show the process title as "/usr/bin/git". To back out of this, just do the following:

unset DEVELOPER_DIR
sed -i -e "/export DEVELOPER_DIR=~\/xcls\//d" ~/.bashrc

Proof:

630188s-iMac:testrun 5K$ git HelloWorld
git: 'HelloWorld' is not a git command. See 'git --help'.

Why does this occur?

I was clued in on how to do this from the following article on the blog Mac Operations. On Mac OS X, starting from OS X Maverick, Apple attempted to make life easier for developers. They did this by installing shims in place of a number useful developer binaries, one of which is git. git is located in /usr/bin/. This git, however, is not actually git but instead is linked against Apple's libxcselect library.

630188s-iMac:testrun 5K$ otool -L /usr/bin/git
/usr/bin/git:
  /usr/lib/libxcselect.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 1.0.0)
  /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 1226.10.1)

It's interesting to display the name list of the libxcselect.dylib symbol table:

630188s-iMac:testrun 5K$ nm -gU /usr/lib/libxcselect.dylib
0000000000000fb9 T _xcselect_find_developer_contents_from_path
00000000000012a2 T _xcselect_get_developer_dir_path
0000000000001b21 T _xcselect_get_manpaths
0000000000001647 T _xcselect_invoke_xcrun
0000000000001aec T _xcselect_manpaths_free
0000000000001acd T _xcselect_manpaths_get_num_paths
0000000000001ad6 T _xcselect_manpaths_get_path
0000000000001d96 T _xcselect_trigger_install_request

Notice _xcselect_invoke_xcrun?

630188s-iMac:testrun 5K$ nm /usr/bin/git
0000000100000000 T __mh_execute_header
0000000100000f5f T _main
0000000100001018 S _shim_marker
                 U _xcselect_invoke_xcrun
                 U dyld_stub_binder

As you can see, it calls upon xcrun. What is xcrun? xcrun is used to "run or locate development tools and properties." What it basically does is locates where a variety of XCode tools are located and if no --find option is sent to it, then it executes the tool with the provided arguments. The tool has a bunch of rules to resolve the location of the tool, but if you define the environment variable DEVELOPER_DIR and set it to a directory of your choice, then this will force xcrun to redirect itself to $DEVELOPER_DIR/usr/bin/ and then run xcrun with the same parameters it was given at the command line. If you want to have a look at this a bit further, someone has reimplemented this on GitHub as an open sourced project.

An unusual decision by Apple...

This is, frankly, somewhat bemusing. Apple seems to be locking down /usr/bin under a rootless system called System Integrity Protection. However, as Rachel pointed out in her article, she couldn't even set the execute bit to off on that binary, not even by root. SIP does more than just render certain directories immutable, but this aspect has been designed to try to prevent malware from being installed onto the system - which often was occurring because single-user systems would often just have software ask for the admin password (the same as the user's) and the end user, not being technical, typed it in and gave unfettered root access to the system. However, as you can see above, I'm able to "replace" certain utilities (in this case, git) with my very own script that isn't in my $PATH variable. Note that I don't even have to have XCode tools installed for this to work - the library being used by the preinstalled shims is actually designed to prompt the user to install the XCode command line utilities via a popup dialog box. I find it odd that Apple would do this for the following reasons:

They use bash by default. In bash 4.x a new feature was introduced (and widely implemented by pretty much every major Linux distribution) that handles this much more cleverly. When bash encounters someone trying to execute a file it can't find, it looks for the shell function command_not_found_handle. Normally this is implemented by giving a number of suggestions and then returns status code 127, which is the same code that you get if the shell can't find the executable or that function. There is absolutely no executing of a specific binary, it's all completely done within the user's bash environment. Apple currently have a 3.2.x version of bash on El Capitan. If they were to update it to anything in the 4.x series, they could do pretty much everything that Linux distributions do - and more effectively.
It bypasses SIP - if someone wanted to be malicious, instead of updating their binary in /usr/bin all they have to do is name the compromised binary xcrun, and store it anywhere in the user's directory user the usr/bin subdirectory, and then point the environment variable DEVELOPER_DIR to that directory. Notice that on OS X you can hide directory from the Finder (chflag hidden ~/xcls), thus obscuring the tracks of anyone who manages to compromise the system unaided, and you can easily mask the process title in bash via running your program as exec -a "/usr/bin/git" command "parameter1 parameter2 etc"

Tips for LibreOffice newbies

2016-03-16T16:10:00.002-07:00

Li Haoyi has written an excellent blog post entitled "Diving Into Other People's Code" about diving into an unfamilar codebase (HN discussion here).

I think this is really very helpful for anyone who wants to look at the LibreOffice source for the first time. Many of the things he mentions are directly relatable to LibreOffice - in particular getting your dev environment setup is particularly relatable.

Getting Started

To develop in LibreOffice, you really need some level of C++ skill, an ability to read other people's code, and be willing to learn and improve over time. However, you can still contribute Java and Python code to parts of the project (though in terms of unit tests, we really encourage converting Java unit tests to C++ tests eventually).

Any newbies should start here:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GetInvolved

and then have a look at:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/How_to_build

One easy way of setting up your development environment is to use lode, which is a project that helps you setup a base environment to build LibreOffice:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/lode

Once it is installed, check out how to use gerrit:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/gerrit

Be warned, depending on your setup this can take quite a bit of time and can be at times frustrating. We do our best to make things as easy as possible, but even building LibreOffice can take hours and hours to complete.

Learn git

A bit of git experience is very helpful - luckily you only ever have to do a git clone once, but you should learn about branching, rebasing, pulling and pushing. I would strongly suggest using the logerrit scripts. I personally use the following to pull in changes onto my current working branch:

./g pull -r

I strongly recommend spending a few hours on the following graphical tutorial on git, Learn Git Branching. This is well worth doing regardless of whether you contribute to LibreOffice - knowing how git works to the degree that this shows you is a skill that is immensely valuable. This tutorial demystified a lot of git concepts for me, and helped me "get" how git does things. Eventually you will get stuck in some git mess, so knowing how to reset is very valuable.

I also recommend learning how to use interactive rebase in git, which is done via:

git rebase -i

What this does is take your changes are change the "base" of the commit in question. You can move the commit up or down the version history, reword specific commit messages, "squash" commits into the parent commit (be very careful about doing this) or edit the commit itself. When you run git rebase -i it opens up your text editor - just read what it states in the editor to learn how to use it.

If you do ever mess up a rebase, incidentally, you can use the git reflog to back out of your change. Check out the Atlassian reflog tutorial on this, could be a lifesaver. Another tutorial I used before I found the Atlassian one can be found here, try the Atlassian one first though.

Hot tip for vim fans

If you are a vim fan, then I suggest the following setup for your .vimrc file:

filetype indent on

set tabstop=4

set shiftwidth=4

set expandtab

highlight ExtraWhitespace ctermbg=red guibg=red

match ExtraWhitespace /\s\+$/

augroup trailing_whitespace

autocmd!

autocmd BufWritePre *.c :%s/\s\+$//e

autocmd BufWritePre *.h :%s/\s\+$//e

autocmd BufWritePre *.cxx :%s/\s\+$//e

autocmd BufWritePre *.hxx :%s/\s\+$//e

augroup END

We don't use tabs, we use 4 spaced-tabs. Some time ago I discovered a way of showing extra whitespace at the end of lines directly in vim, and then later after some discussion on the LibreOffice developer mailing list I discovered how to safely remove trailing whitespace on write.

Start Hacking!

When you are modifying the LibreOffice codebase, you'll find that you'll spend more time reading and grokking the code than actually modifying it. I'd consider this normal, so if you find this is occurring don't fret - we all have to do this. The LibreOffice codebase is massive, I think from memory it has more lines of code than the Linux codebase and has been in continuous development since 1988.

When I started on LibreOffice hacking, I found I was most interested in finding the code entry point. Frankly, I was only initially reading the code for pleasure (yes, I'm strange that way) and so I used http://opengrok.libreoffice.org to browse the code.

However, many years before I had actually attempted to compile OpenOffice.org - and failed rather spectacularly as I ran out of disk space. Whilst this was occuring I did a lot of reading of OpenOffice.org developer manuals - I really recommend reading OpenOffice.org's Developer Guide. Don't be put off by the fact that it is hosted on the competing Apache OpenOffice site, it's really very high quality and whilst the LibreOffice codebase is more actively developed there is still a lot of really useful information on the Apache OpenOffice sites.

Once you have read enough, have a look at our EasyHacks list. These are a list of things that need to be done in the LibreOffice codebase that are designed for newbies - and if you ever want to participate in Google Summer of Code you'll need to demonstrate that you've worked on a few bugs or submitted a few commits to deal with easy hacks. You'll also know that you've contributed to a codebase that literally millions of people use every day, and your name will be in the commit history. :-)

Join in with the development community

LibreOffice is a very friendly environment. We mostly go out of our way to help out newbies, as we want to encourage as many participants as possible. A such, you can join us on the #libreoffice-dev IRC channel on Freenode. We don't largely answer user questions (for that there is #libreoffice), but if you are getting stuck on something feel free to ask on the channel.

The other way of joining in is to subscribe to the developer mailing list. You can either subscribe to the digest, or get every message directly - in which case I suggest setting up a filter or else you might get drowned out in emails. If you do get digest messages, please don't reply to the digest directly but copy the message you want to respond to into the email, and retain the original subject line, prefixed with "Re:". We suggest setting up the Reply-To header on your mail client, but it's good practice to ensure that the original mail receipients are cc'ed into your responses.

(I'm also a chronic abuser, but please don't top-post. Don't be me.)

Commit messages

A final tip: commit messages are really important. I personally tend to write longer messages detailing the work that I've done, but that's just my own style. The most important thing about commit messages is they must be to the point and explain what you have done, not what the code used to do. If your code change is complicated or not necessarily easy to follow, then it's best to try to leave an explanation of what you are doing. The commit title should be clear enough that someone browsing the git log in cgit can understand the purpose of the commit.

If your commit is easy to understand or minor, then only a commit message title is needed. If you need to explain things in more detail in the commit message body, as I said, you should state what you did.

An example that shows both what you should and shouldn't do is where I fixed an issue where the PPI wasn't being exported to JPEGs correctly.

Good things about my commit message:

Note that as I fixed a bug, I prefixed the commit message short title with tdf#85761. There is a bot that reviews the git logs and if it finds this in the message title it automatically updates the bugzilla bug. You can only reference one bug however.
I summarised my change that we don't hardcode JPEGs to 96 DPI any more but use mapmode pref size to get the DPI, and moved the scaling function from the EPS filter code to the MapMode class.
It explains what the problem actually is, as it was a bit difficult to understand the cause of the issue from the original bug report.

Bad thing:

I still spent too much time explaining what the code originally did (thus violating my own recommendation I give in this blog post).

FWIW, it can still be useful in explaining what the code did, but I'd leave that to a note in the last paragraph - and I recommend you make it brief.

Why I love hacking at LibreOffice

2016-01-22T17:59:00.002-08:00

The LibreOffice codebase is, to be frank, messy. This isn't a criticism of previous developers - it's still an amazing product and an amazing feat of programming given the number of platforms it runs on. The StarView guys, and later OpenOffice.org development team, did a great job. For instance, I was reading up on the font mapping code and I often saw Herbert Duerr's name, and I've got nothing but respect for the work that he did and his dedication to the project.

Unfortunately, the messiness is the result of a codebase that was first created in 1988 and has been actively worked on and changed directions a number of times. So... what is it that I love about working on LibreOffice?

In a word: the people. I've never met any of my fellow hackers in person, only a few phone calls to Michael Meeks and listened in on some Collabora meetings when I did some work for them. Mostly I stick around the IRC channel and keep an eye on the mailing list.

On the IRC channel, however, I've noticed the good humour and tolerance of the developers towards those not as expert as themselves. For example, Stephan Bergman (sberg) is the go to guy in terms of anything C++ related - and the other day he helped me out with a tricky bit of code (well, I thought it was tricky) related to the equality operator. Tor Lillqvist, as another example, is a diamond in the rough IMO and has often pointed me in the right direction when I'm online. And I cannot forget to mention Norbert Thiebaud (shm_get on IRC) for his constant maintenance of Jenkins (a thankless task!) and gerrit. These are literally just some of the folks who I interact with all the time and just a small sample of the folks who work on the LibreOffice project.

Without the goodwill and encouragement of the folks who hack away daily on the LibreOffice project, I doubt I'd be able to work on the small part of the codebase that I have chosen to improve. In fact, there is an active outreach program currently being run lead by Jan Iverson (JanIV on IRC) and there are quite a few commits coming in from newbies of all stripes. This is leading to some real improvements in the code, for instance new developer Dipankar Niranjan did a whole series of commits to remove the "dog-tag" code from the VCL module (the "dog-tags" was a way of attempting to ensure that Windows weren't deleted at the wrong time, but was a total hack and has been solved by VclPtr) - this has recently allowed sberg to remove ImplSVEvent::maDelData. Seeing the code evolve is also highly enjoyable :-)

There are so many more examples of this it's just not possible for me to list them in this post. It's interesting that LibreOffice has made so much traction in the last year in terms of code quality - whilst the UI hasn't changed hugely (though that is going to change I suspect in the next year!) the incremental improvements have been increasing at a rate of knots and folks are beginning to notice the positive effects. One user, who will remain nameless but is an active follower of the LibreOffice development process, told me that he noticed that the 5.x release was very much more responsive and stable that the 4.x series... and amusingly commented that "it's remarkable how interesting it is to watch the development of such an intrinsically boring type of software".

So there you have it, the reason I love hacking at LibreOffice is the people who work on it! May it ever be this way.

Restricting Doxygen indexing to particular LibreOffice modules

2016-01-07T16:34:00.002-08:00

I have committed a code change to the LibreOffice tree to allow developers to specify what modules they want Doxygen to index. I have done this because indexing every module is quite time consuming, and you may only want to review a subset of modules (in my case I am interested primarily in the vcl module).

To index specific modules only, you now export the $INPUT_PROJECTS environment variable and run make docs. For example, if you want to index only the vcl and svtools modules, you would do the following:

chris@libreoffice-ia64:~/repos/libreoffice$ export INPUT_PROJECTS="vcl svtools"
chris@libreoffice-ia64:~/repos/libreoffice$ make docs
chris@libreoffice-ia64:~/repos/libreoffice$ unset INPUT_PROJECTS

You can(not) have a void namespace in C++...

2016-01-07T16:26:00.003-08:00

Update: So this was discussed on IRC, and it turns out I've got this all entirely wrong. It's actually much simpler - it turns out you don't need a space before the scope operator thus you can legally have:

void::TheClass::TheFunction(int n1, int n2) {}

This is the same as:

void ::TheClass::TheFunction(int n1, int n2) {}

and:

void ::TheClass ::TheFunction(int n1, int n2) {}

--------

I ran doxygen over the vcl module in LibreOffice and I got a lot of warnings and errors. I am now making a concerted effort to fix these warnings because I actually find doxygen generates good info on the classes, and I rather like the collaboration and inheritance diagrams it produces.

However, a strange error that it produced was:

/home/chris/repos/libreoffice/vcl/source/control/combobox.cxx:1322 warning: no uniquely matching class member found for void::ComboBox::Impl::ImplUserDrawHandler(UserDrawEvent *pEvent)

"A void namespace in the LibreOffice codebase?" I thought. How could this be? How is this even possible?

Sure enough, the definition was void::ComboBox::Impl:ImplUserDrawHandler(UserDrawEvent*)!

In an effort to work out if this was what was intended (which I was very doubtful of) I tracked down the commit, which converted the old style IMPL_LINK macro to a boost signal. It was definitely not intended!

I then tracked down where the C++ standard is held and reviewed the C++14 draft (I can't afford to spend US$216 on the official ISO standard). Section 7.3 deals with namespaces:

Amazingly (to my mind) there is no restriction on the namespace identifier, thus it is entirely possible to accidentally create a void, int, float or any other reserved C++ keyword as a namespace!

I wonder if it might be worthwhile for compilers to spit out a warning if they see this? Perhaps we need to write a clang plugin to detect this sort of thing in LibreOffice. The only reason this hasn't had an impact is that it doesn't appear that anything is currently using user-defined draw signals on comboboxes.

I pushed commit 86338fbb94324ed to fix this.

Possible 15 year old regression

2016-01-05T01:55:00.000-08:00

A few days ago, I filed bug 96826 ("Typewriter attribute not given enough weight when finding font based on attributes") against LibreOffice. Basically, I've been refactoring VCL font code and I was very interested to see what my predecessors had been doing before me. This meant that I actually read pretty much all of the commits I could find all the way back to the year 2000 for that file, which held much of the font code for VCL.

One of the functions was originally in a class called ImplFontCache, which had a get() function that worked as a font mapper. It basically does a running total of a number of weighted values depending on the "strength" or "quality" of the font matching attribute. One of those attributes was to check if the font is a fixed-width font, then check to see if the font is a typewriter style font, giving a deliberately higher weighting to typewriter style fonts.

Anyway, on the 29th June 2001 someone with the initials th (no idea who this was, nor is it really important) did some tweaks to the function in an attempt to improve font mapping in commit 925806de6. To ensure that the typewriter style was given a weighted value, they have multiplied the value by 2. However, they appear to have accidentally removed a zero from the weighting, thus reducing the weighting of the typewriter style fonts, not increased it!

As I was reading the code, I thought "whoops, that was unfortunate" and assumed I'd see the error picked up somewhere down the track and fixed. Now either the weighting has little effect on these fonts, or not many people have problems with typewriter fonts not being cleanly mapped by the underlying platform, but this has never been fixed.

The code has since migrated its way into PhysicalFontCollection::FindFontFamilyByAttributes(), and it's still there!

    610         // test MONOSPACE+TYPEWRITER attributes
    611         if( nSearchType & ImplFontAttrs::Fixed )
    612         {
    613             if( nMatchType & ImplFontAttrs::Fixed )
    614                 nTestMatch += 1000000*2;
    615             // a typewriter attribute is even better
    616             if( ImplFontAttrs::None == ((nSearchType ^ nMatchType) & ImplFontAttrs::Typewriter) )
    617                 nTestMatch += 10000*2;
    618         }

As with any codebase with a 30 year pedigree, I've not committed a fix because I just don't know if this is something I want to touch. Hence I've logged the bug to see if anyone can shed any light on it. I'll probably follow up on the mailing list in a few weeks time to ping any more experienced developers, but until then this potential bug, which is in the middle of going through puberty, will remain.

VirtualBox on OS X with Windows 10 guest and the ctrl key

2015-12-03T07:02:00.000-08:00

Karabiner allows you to disable ctrl+left click on OS X. That will, by default, do the same thing that right-click does with a mouse. You choose the following option to disable it:

So here's where things go bad. If you run VirtualBox and you run a Windows 10 system, you have to turn this off. I believe I had this on due to an early version of VirtualBox not handling ctrl+left click, but they seem to have fixed this in the latest version... ironically my workaround that fixed my issue now breaks it!

Bypassing the compatibility checker when upgrading from Windows 8.1 to Windows 10 in VirtualBox

2015-11-30T01:58:00.000-08:00

I use OS X as my primary operating system, but still need to use Windows so I've installed Windows 8.1 as a VirtualBox Virtual Machine. Recently I decided that I wanted to upgrade to Windows 10, but when I do Windows complains it doesn't like the VirtualBox Graphics Adapter for Windows 8:

I got quite busy, but recently I decided to find out how to resolve this. A (very) cursory Google search wasn't terribly helpful, so I decided to see what registry keys Windows looks for when it checks for compatibility. For this task I used Process Monitor - the process is called GWXUX.exe so I restricted the capture to only the registry and added the filter: Process Name is GWXUX.exe

A quick scroll through the output showed that there is a registry DWORD HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\OSUpgrade\AllowOSUpgrade

This is set to 0x0, but if you change it to 0x1, then you can upgrade in Windows Update itself (note, if you click on the upgrade to Windows 10 icon in the system notification tray it will still run the compatibility check).

Hopefully someone will find this useful. I can only imagine VMware installs might be getting the same issue, so this key will force an upgrade. I should note that if you set this key on anything other than VirtualBox and do an OS upgrade you do so at your own risk :-)

OSI membership

2015-03-02T16:50:00.002-08:00

I've just joined the OSI as a member - in AUD it is about $50, but it's well worth it!

The reason I became a member was because I thought it was high time that I did this. I contribute to LibreOffice, and I truly believe that open source and open culture is very important to society at large. I believe that open source gives maximum freedom to those in society who are not necessarily empowered due to economic or social circumstances. It levels the playing field, and what I most love is that it really gives transparency to those who use software so that they can verify and improve upon the work of those who have gone before them, without restricting the ability of others to use the work to improve the conditions and lives of others in society.

I encourage others to also join the OSI, as it is really is a force of good in the world.

Refactoring LibreOffice: VCL FontCharMap

2014-10-17T22:57:00.000-07:00

I have been looking at the VCL in LibreOffice, which is its cross-platform widget and window library. Whilst reading the SalGraphics class (more on this in a future post) I noticed a class called ImplFontCharMap . Curious, I looked more into it. Why the "Impl"-prefix? What about FontCharMap?

As it turns out, ImplFontCharMap is a Pimpl for FontCharMap. Now normally a Pimpl has very little code and is not directly accessible by any class other than the class that uses it. A Pimpl allows for better builds in C++, and a number of other reasons. In this case ImplFontCharMap was doing a LOT.

A font character map in VCL allows a font to be mapped to Unicode codepoints. The VCL font charmap allows you to find a character in the font based on the Unicode codepoint, find the next and previous character supported by the font (these are not necessarily contiguous) and the first and last characters supported. There is also a default charmap, which maps the BMP plane, including surrogates.

ImplFontCharMap had an internal reference counting mechanism to optimise sharing of charmaps. However, this was better changed to boost's intrusive_ptr, because frankly that implementation is far more well engineered and tested, not to mention I'm not a fan of maintaining code that isn't really specifically addressing VCL needs. (incidentally, the best rundown I found of intrusive_ptr can be found at this man's blog) The commit can be found here. You can see that I've been able to immediately remove AddReference() and DeReference().

You will notice, however, that there are a few classes who rely on ImplFontCharMap (now ImplFontCharMapPtr, a typedef to an intrusive_ptr) directly. In particular, SalGraphics was relying on returning the Pimpl! Frankly, that's madness in my view. As I've said, Pimpls are really intended to be tightly coupled to a particular class and should never be used directly. The class that needs the Pimpl should be used! You can see other side effects, because the Pimpl is really duplicating code that should be in FontCharMap. This is clearly a bit if a code maintenance nightmare.

Given that a Pimpl is one of the very few concepts in C++ that relies on tightly coupling two classes, I made FontCharMap a friend class of ImplFontCharMap and moved most public functions from ImplFontCharMap to FontCharMap. I kept the destructor and the functions getDefaultCharMap() and isCharMap() but you'll notice I made them private, hence the lowercase first letter of the function names. I do NOT want VCL based code to access the Pimpl! I thought this was a necessary compromise because the logic really was more entwined with the data itself. There is a function FontCharMap::GetDefaultCharMap() although it's not normally necessary as the default charmap is shared via intrusive_ptr and the default FontCharMap constructor just returns a reference to the default charmap. I have provided it because you can get a default font charmap that excludes symbols.

I realised at this point, after a chat with Kendy on IRC, that I had dealt with managing the Pimpl for FontCharMap, but now I was returning raw FontCharMap pointers. This was defeating my refactor, so I made the typedef FontCharMapPtr, which is an intrusive_ptr to a FontCharMap instance. I then refactored the code to use this instead of the raw pointer.

The second commit that implemented this can be found here.

Finally, I have to have a big shout-out to Caolán McNamara from RedHat who found a rather embarassing bug I introduced and fixed it. The issue was that I didn't initialize the ref counter variables, except where I did where I set it to 1... which was rather silly of me, though I was reliably informed by Michael Meeks that he has done the same thing in the past.

Anyway, this is how I refactored a relatively small class. It actually took a lot of effort to do. In the end, I created a unit test to ensure that FontCharMap was still working correctly.

How to build only vcl modules from scratch in LibreOffice

2014-03-23T00:05:00.002-07:00

After reviewing the component diagram on the LibreOffice wiki, the following will make the VCL module in LibreOffice:

make sal salhelper store cppuhelper cppu xmlreader registry unoidl dtrans \
     binaryurp dtrans animations jvmfwk jvmaccess javaunohelper stoc i18nlangtag \
     ucbhelper comphelper basegfx tools unotools i18nutil i18npool sot svl vcl

Update: this doesn't always work. Turns out that there is some sort of circular dependency between i18npool and another module, which make sorts out itself.

I'm now trying:

make CppunitTest_i18npool_test_breakiterator ucb configmgr vcl

Google+ names policy discriminates against Native Americans

2014-03-08T03:41:00.001-08:00

I find it absurd that Google+ doesn't recognize certain names. The latest outrage was when they rejected Elaine Yellow Horse. It was only after BuzzFeed contacted Google that they decided that, gee whiz, that is a real name! Who would have thought it.

So I thought I might let Google know a few things about Anthroponymy. Given Google has a whole division who work out if you've given a real name or not, you would hope they would be well-versed on what can constitute a name. It appears not, even in their own country they don't recognize the name of the original native people who inhabited the land.

Here are a few things that Google+ administrators might like to brush up on when it comes to names of people around the world:

You don't have to have two names. You can be named with just one name - a mononym. This is quite common all over the world.
There are those who prefer to be named after their children - this is called teknonymy. As an example, I knew a Lebanese man whose first son was named George. We knew him as Abu George, literally "father of George".
People can have names that are... unusual. Let's give you a few:

Jellyfish McSaveloy
Heavenly Hiraani Tiger Lily Hutchence
Apple Blythe Alison Martin
Baby Hospital
Yahoo Serious
Goveg.com

There are a number of people whose names may be mistaken for rudeness:

Argelico Fucks
Dick Assman
Lucious Pusey (changed to Lucious Seymour)
Rusty Kuntz

So let's see - Google will be banning all the Fucks, Assman, Pusey and Kuntz of the world, even though these are their legal names.

Google, pick up your act. It's getting really old. Frankly, the fact that Elaine Yellow Horse appealed your policy three times and it was only once the media got involved that you did the right thing shows that your staff are either incompetent, or racist. I hope for incompetence. Either is bad, but racism is much worse than incompetence.

How to use NUnit in Visual Studio 2010

2011-02-22T04:03:00.000-08:00

To run NUnit, you need to add the following to the NUnit.exe.config file:

Under C:\Program Files\NUnit 2.5.9\bin\net-2.0\nunit.exe.config (replace version with whatever you have installed) add the following:

<startup>
   
   <supportedruntime version="v4.0">
</startup>

Also add the following in the <runtime> block:

<loadfromremotesources enabled="true">

The reason is that in .NET v3.5 and below, remote assemblies were loaded partially trusted. Starting with .NET v4, unless you add this directive then you will get a runtime exception.

Once you have done this, add another dll project and add a reference to NUnit.Framework.

What does Vodafone 3G and the Sydney city bus system have in common?

2011-01-11T04:38:00.000-08:00

A note to the NSW government. Adding more buses does not decrease travel times. It actually increases travel times. This is called "bufferbloat" in network systems. Why? Because if you have a limited capacity on a road, and it gets blocked, adding MORE vehicles makes things slower. The only way to fix the issue is to increase the capacity of the roads.

It's the same for train lines. Adding MORE trains won't help anything. You need to add more platforms to stations, and with more platforms you need to lay more rail track. Then you distribute the current number of trains on these tracks and make them go faster than they do. If you then add enough platforms and rail tracks, then you can start adding more trains.

Congestion theory 101. If only the dimwitted politicians would know it. Or perhaps the public? :-)

On that note: Vodafone and 3 - please pay attention! I suspect that this is partly the cause of your incredibly crap service.

My greatest claim to fame

2010-12-28T14:19:00.000-08:00

Sadly, my greatest claim to fame is that I invented the [citation needed] tag. I'll stop sobbing in a corner one day.

P.S. if anyone writes [Citation needed], then [Citation provided].

Markov Chain generator

2010-12-28T01:43:00.001-08:00

As it turns out, with a sufficiently dense input text, a Markov Chain generator is actually reasonably easy to implement.

From page 62 of The Practice of Programming:

set w1 and w2 to the first two words in the text
print w1 and w2
loop:
randomly choose w3, one of the successors of prefix w1 w2 in the text
print w3
print w1 and w2 by w2 and w3
repeat loop